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Topic: Right Hand Picking |
Alan Muir
From:
Colorado, USA
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Posted 1 Apr 2020 7:00 pm |
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I'm relatively new to this but moving along. my question is about right hand picking patterns. Right now I'm wondering about the preferred way to pick a major scale. I see many people play it differently. What is the most efficient?
Thanks and I hope everybody is in good health and staying positive. Best wishes if you're not. Thanks. |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 2 Apr 2020 1:53 am
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Hi Alan
I'm not sure there's an answer! You only have to look at the first three notes, on strings 8,7 & 6. Apart from everyone starting with their thumb, after that I've observed T12, T1T, TT1, TT2, T2T - which only leaves T21! Some players seem to use more fingers and jump less, others vice versa.
On the other hand, we learn scales not to perform them complete (usually) but to use portions of them in a melody, and I get by picking according to what happens before and after.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
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Posted 2 Apr 2020 1:05 pm
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Joe Wright has written an exhaustive method book focused predominantly on right hand technique. It includes every possible picking pattern known to man for pedal steel. I practice with it close by all the time, and recommend it, for whatever that’s worth.
Last edited by Fred Treece on 2 Apr 2020 4:43 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Ken Metcalf
From:
San Antonio Texas USA
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Brian Hollands
From:
Geneva, FL USA
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Gene Tani
From:
Pac NW
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Posted 2 Apr 2020 3:27 pm
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Mickey Adams videos are great, as are Josh Yenne, james Shelton, steelpicking and others:
https://www.youtube.com/results?sp=mAEB&search_query=pedal+steel+scales+
Have you considered lessons?
_________________
- keyless Sonny Jenkins laps stay in tune forever!; Carter PSG
- The secret sauce: polyester sweatpants to buff your picks, cheapo Presonus channel strip for preamp/EQ/compress/limiter, Diet Mountain Dew |
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Alan Muir
From:
Colorado, USA
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Posted 2 Apr 2020 5:15 pm
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| Thanks all. I appreciate the links. |
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Darren Mortillaro
From:
Nevada, USA
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Posted 22 Apr 2020 12:13 am
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Hi Alan,
I'm actually at the same point in my playing, where I'm trying to get some single note dexterity. Seems counterintuitive to only use two picking fingers, but is this how most steel players approach solos and scales? |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 22 Apr 2020 1:04 am
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| Darren Mortillaro wrote: |
| Seems counterintuitive to only use two picking fingers, but is this how most steel players approach solos and scales? |
Apparently so. In particular I recently watched a James Shelton video in which he assures us that two fingers are quicker than three, and proceeds to play some very fast scales indeed!
The second finger is stronger than the first, I suppose, but surely learning any instrument involves getting all your fingers up to equal strength.
I actually use three finger picks on PSG because I have played clarinet and trumpet so my third finger is not used to being left out.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
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Posted 22 Apr 2020 8:30 am
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Middle finger may be slightly stronger than index, but I think there are other reasons so many players follow the TM rather than TI or TITM sequence when playing single notes. Middle finger is out of the thumb’s way, for one. Another might be that it eliminates having to make a choice between alternating M or I with the thumb. I believe the main reason is, that’s how they were taught. Or how they taught themselves.
If you grew accustomed to using two or more fingers along with the thumb on another instrument (guitar, banjo, piano, clarinet), I think it’s only natural to employ them similarly on the steel. But if your teacher tries to teach it out of you, then you might be left wondering what the heck to do with those other fingers. “Save them for playing chords†seems to be the mantra.
I doubt if Buddy Emmons adhered to such strict limitations. The videos we see of him playing single note jazz at blinding speed go by so fast we’re not really sure what he’s doing half the time. He could probably play TIM banjo rolls backward and forward with either hand, or a 5 finger arpeggio across 10 strings if he wanted to. Same with Paul, or Curly, or Tommy, Reece, etc. Joe Wright’s wide open approach of exploring all the possibilities seems to reflect that kind of utility and creativity, to me. |
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Darren Mortillaro
From:
Nevada, USA
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Posted 27 Apr 2020 2:58 am
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Well, I started looking at this old video and practiced it over the weekend. I think the secret may be developing muscle memory, by aligning the hand crease with the second finger, as a reference point.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZdRy1AOLJk
Keeping the hand exactly parallel with the pickups seems near impossible, so I've been ignoring that, while attempting to keep the first knuckle high, as demonstrated above.
I actually drew on my hand as Newman suggested, and that seems to help.
Stop me now, if the video above is ill advised. |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 27 Apr 2020 5:35 am
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It's well-advised, but what's it doing on YouTube?
It's copyrighted, surely.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Tucker Jackson
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 27 Apr 2020 10:58 am
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| Darren Mortillaro wrote: |
I actually drew on my hand as Newman suggested, and that seems to help.
Stop me now, if the video above is ill advised. |
If you play better, then it's not ill-advised.
I will say that I wasted a decade trying to keep the main crease over the highest string, and that really hurt my picking. But, hey, blocking was awesome. The Newman method is all about putting your hand unnaturally further away from you than you otherwise would to help with palm blocking. It's mostly about getting the meatiest part of the back of the hand over the strings you're currently playing.
That's logical, and it works, but what if you can't really pick well with the hand positioned that way?? What good is having excellent palm blocking abilities when you futzed up the picking in the first place? Wait... I just answered my own question. You need to block that mangled playing immediately. Mission accomplished.
And what if all the other types of blocking we use -- pick blocking, bar-hand blocking -- make up more of your playing than palm blocking? Palm blocking was THE tonal style in the 60's, but less so as time went on. These days, it's just one of the many tools in the bag, but not the only tool, as Newman seems to teach.
Jeff Newman was an awesome teacher. Unfortunately, he stated some things as fact which just weren't. By his estimation, somebody who has, say, JayDee Maness or Joe Wright's hand position, which is far flatter than he recommends, shouldn't be able to really play a steel guitar. My guess is that if they tried to force their hands into the Newman posture for their career, we may never have learned their names.
So, yes, try the Newman method. If it works, great. If it doesn't, give it some time to work because no matter what you do, it's going to be awkward at first. And if it still isn't happening, put your hand in the most natural postion for you, re-bend the blades of your picks, if necassary, to work in that hand postion and go to town. Just don't waste a decade trying to be 'proper' according to what one guy said was the only way to do it.
Steel players are all over the map in terms of how they hold their hands and wear their picks. Paul Franklin has the position and blocking methods that I seem to observe in most hands I see these days. If you're going to check out a great teacher, take a look at Franklin too. But like all ergonomic issues, we're all a little different, so also factor in what your body tells you is comfortable. |
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Markus Mayerhofer
From:
Vienna, Austria
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Posted 27 Apr 2020 2:04 pm
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Jeff Newman's Right Hand Alpha is a great source and a good thing to revisit from time to time. Jeff strongly advocates palm-blocking there.
But if i look closely to the intro, i can see lot of pick-blocking and at least a combination of both approaches there. Funny! |
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Darren Mortillaro
From:
Nevada, USA
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Posted 27 Apr 2020 2:12 pm
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| Ian Rae wrote: |
It's well-advised, but what's it doing on YouTube?
It's copyrighted, surely. |
Welp, if you can't buy it on Jeffran, without getting ripped off, more power to those who post this stuff on youtube.  |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 27 Apr 2020 3:35 pm
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I take your point. I was thinking of the good old days when the stuff was readily for sale. To be fair, has anyone managed to buy any of those courses lately?
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Leo Grassl
From:
Madison TN
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Posted 28 Apr 2020 4:13 pm
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For the purpose of making you aware of what your options are for picking/blocking across all lines I would reccomend enrolling in the Paul Franklin Method. There is a section in the course that covers "Three Element Blocking". Paul describes this as combining Three out four elements for blocking. The four elements are fingers(4th and 5th), picks, palm, OR the back of the thumb.
Three element "Palm blocking" is the modern approach to palm blocking as a base technique and is done by combining fingers, picks and palm for accomplishing blocking. The palm is for ascending notes. Some examples of outstanding three element palm blockers would be Buddy Emmons, Tommy White, and Gary Carter to name a few. Most notable palm blockers tend to favor two fingers for single note runs, usually the thumb and third finger but sometimes thumb and first.
Three element "pick blocking" is combing fingers, picks and the back of the thumb. The back of thumb is for ascending notes. Examples of excellent pick blockers are Paul Franklin, and Travis Toy. Pick blockers do not favor two fingers for single note runs nearly like palm blockers do. In fact many runs are done with all three fingers.
Neither is better or worse its whatever feels right for you. Check out Pauls course for detail on how the two techniques are done. |
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John Goux
From:
California, USA
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Posted 28 Apr 2020 9:17 pm
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| TTT |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 28 Apr 2020 10:16 pm
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| Fred Treece wrote: |
| Joe Wright has written an exhaustive method book |
Fred, I'd be interested to see that.
Is it still available?
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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