Excel Steels

Mike Vallandigham · From: Martinez, CA

Lemme see if I can answer some of the questions you guys posted. You all know I can't stop talking about Excels.

FWIW, I have two (2) 12 string E9/C6 S-12 Superbs, one is a 2018, the other a 2008 model. Both have 8+7.

I know a thing or two about them, as I've had the undersides completely apart on both of them.

Dave Munson: I have tht exact guitar. I had problems on the 3rd string until I cleaned up a sharp edge inside the hole where the string ball goes, and started pre-stretching this string. The problem here is that if you don't pre-stretch the strings, you have to run the tuner so far that a sharp edge comes in contact with the string, and it breaks. I do still shield my eyes when tuning this one up! haha! I run a 0.011" string here.

John McClung:
The guitar has a regular axle, about which pivots the raise finger, executing a raise. The lower finger inside has an oblong hole about the axle, and actually rotates about a smaller pin (that pins the raise and lower finger together) that's just below the main axle. The lower finger looks like it's sliding forward, but really, it's rotating about a point below the main axle. Kind of hard to explain, but pretty simple once you see it.

They are east to work on as any guitar, maybe even easier. Nothing attached to the body deck, but all attached to the drilled rail system.

Let me see if I can post some pics: These are my 2018 S-12 E9/C6. It's super busy, but it works perfectly. Amazing really.

This last photo you can see the lower pivot below the axle hole.

Ross Shafer · From: Petaluma, California

Google is my friend

all pull: https://www.pedalsteel.fr/index.php/pedal-steel-tech-infos/discover-setup-understand-the-pedal-steel/the-all-pull-changer-system

push pull: https://www.pedalsteel.fr/index.php/pedal-steel-tech-infos/discover-setup-understand-the-pedal-steel/the-push-pull-changer-system

Mike Vallandigham · From: Martinez, CA

Here are some from my 2018 S-12 E9/C6

Here's Mitsuo playing this guitar at the ISGC. He brought it over and left for Scotty to sell...to me.

Mitsuo is such a nice guy, not to mention a mechanical genius. I feel very fortunate to own two of these beauties. He can communicate via email pretty well in English, it's not really a problem. But remember to keep your wording simple, and don't ramble on. Short and sweet gets the point across. Think how you'd need someone to write to you if you only understood a language in a rudimentary fashion. He does have a friend that helps him with the emails in English.

I can answer any questions you guys might have about ordering, options, finishes, etc. Just post here.

Cheers!

David Munson · From: St. Louis, Missouri, USA

Mike..... Thanks in advance...

Mine was breaking at the changer "inside" not at the tuner.

After 30+ strings.... I used a round tooth pick and found a short piece of wire inside and I think I fixed it.

My biggest problem was tightening the #3 string. I could not get enough pull on it unless my wife sat on the end (not true but funny if she doesn't see it)

I built a lower single tuner (below) but I could not get it to go around the 2nd tightening screw so I built a 1/2" thick aluminum "bridge tuner" that pulls the string around the bottom tightening screw. The trick is not to tighten it too much. C# then tighten the bottom screw- Then tighten top screw. then tuning up with the tuner.

I think this solves it.

Did you remove your changer? Maybe you can tell me if it is possible to remove my neck so I can cut a full slot in the wood for upside down tuning brackets? Mine is only cut for first 4". Don Curtis had a full slot.

Thanks in advance

Mike Vallandigham · From: Martinez, CA

Ah! I see. That third string is so small I think it's hard to get a purchase on it with the grub screw.

Luckily on mine, between the grub screw and the locking cap screw, it holds.

I see that yours has the full aluminum neck. Mine has the split neck and changer/PUP holder. but I think you can still just take the neck off without effecting the changer. I haven't see one exactly like yours in person, so don't quote me on it. Probably just take the strings off, and unscrew it from the bottom side.

I believe that my guitars solve this by just having cut down brackets for the upside down ones.
Are yours full length?

David Munson · From: St. Louis, Missouri, USA

My brackets in the cut compartment are half height and are used on the see saw Here is a better photo.

/P/

I was hoping to purchase just the new changer and modify the body to fit. I have a machine shop so I think I can do it.

Does anyone else know how the solid aluminum neck is fastened? Just screws? Glue?

Mike Vallandigham · From: Martinez, CA

On my guitar, the maple deck is gone completely underneath the cross rods. ie between the back rail and the front rail. So that little cut-out you have on your guitar is extended to basically the whole underside on mine. Then I see a cut-out in what's probably an aluminum deck, then I see the neck piece screwed and CLEARLY glued to the deck.

So there's a good chance yours is bonded too.

The newest changer is not that much different than this one. The only real difference is the way the string attaches, with the "tuning" barrel thing that gets locked my a capo screw, rather than the grub screw locking the string with the cap screw lock as back-up.

If you need to cut a new pocket for upside down brackets, maybe the best way is to de-rod the guitar enough to get the area clear, and then use a router with a long bit to create a new pocket from the underside.

Here, these photos, you can see.. the entire black area is the underside of the high part of the deck, which is cut out also (that's where I see the neck glue) to allow even more clearance for upside down brackets.

I swear, I think every guitar Mitsuo makes is a bit different. I'm sure of it. The man doesn't rest on his laurels, that's for sure. Smile

Patrick Huey · From: Nacogdoches, Texas, USA

Ian Sutton · From: San Francisco, CA

I just received my Excel keyless U12 from Mitsuo just a week or so ago and immediately put it on a plane for a NYE gig. Thus far, I love it.

The order process was very straight-forward, and the turnaround was around a month.
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Some gear.

David Munson · From: St. Louis, Missouri, USA

post some photos

Ross Shafer · From: Petaluma, California

Mitsuo is indeed a genius! He has my utmost respect and was/is a major influence in my own pedal steel design work.

Ian Sutton · From: San Francisco, CA

One feature that I personally like, which reminds me of the MSA Classic, is the straight pull rods and locking collars. It really allows you to fine-tune your pedal slack before the pullers start to engage. I've missed this on my last few guitars.
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Some gear.

fraser · From: seattle wa

Hi,

I purchased a new Excel from Mitsuo through Scotty's Music in 1995. It is a C6th S10 5X5. I gave special instructions for the pickup and a modified copedant.

I've been considering getting another from Mitsuo because a) I am so attached to the sound that if mine got stolen I don't know who else I would buy from. b) he's getting old so may not be available for too much longer c) I've had some issues with mine - not sure if it is me or the guitar. (FYI - When I tried to get spare parts for it, Scotty's or someone remarked that it looked like an earlier model than 1995-ish.) d) I don't think I would try and buy a used Excel and try and adapt the copedant to mine.

So I have two questions:

- what will I find different on the new Excels compared to my old one? What new features are stock on it? I know it's keyless.

- I am so in love with the pickup sound on my existing guitar that I hesitate to try and replace / copy it on a new guitar. I simply told Scotty's that I play with the bass turned way up and I love the Wes Montgomery sound. I also mentioned I had been playing a Fender and loved that sound also. That I did not play with tons of treble like some players do. Any ideas about trying to replicate the pickup on a new guitar.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Fraser

Ian Rae · From: Redditch, England

If you look on the Fuzzy Steel Guitars website it shows the latest changer (2014). The black keyless guitar in the picture is just like mine (ordered late 2016).

https://fuzzypsg.com/int/product.html

Why not e-mail them about pickups? Mitsuo might not be able to supply the same as 25 yrs ago, but it's the place to start.

My guitar should see me out, but if it was as old as yours I'd order right away! Great instruments and truly innovative.
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Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs

fraser · From: seattle wa

Thanks, Ian. very helpful and encouraging.

Question - what does the knob do in the photo below?

Thanks
Fraser

Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

That Gear-Shift is used to Lock into the 6th tuning.
One direction is E9, the other direction is a 6th tuning. It is basically just an inverted knee lever, that can pivot east-west and north-south on a cross-rod. It works great and is also independant of your E-lowers (other brands lock the E-lower lever).
Some guys order it to go between E9 and C6th.
I go between E9th and B6th on my Uni (although I tune down a half step, so open-E is played at fret-1 with the bar).

Ian Rae · From: Redditch, England

On my guitar it simply locks the E lowers. I don't have the E9/C6 contraption, just the conventional E9/B6 universal. Mitsuo insisted I have the lock but I've never used it.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs

fraser · From: seattle wa

Slightly confused - so it's like a Universal that locks you into one tuning or another?

Since I only play C6th, it seems like something I wouldn't use. Does it get in your way? Is it stock?

Thanks - very helpful info
Fraser

Ian Rae · From: Redditch, England

If you only play C6 I wouldn't worry about it.

Mine was a bit long and got slightly in the way so I shortened it right down to the deck.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs

Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

I like the S12U lever lock very much, myself. I can lock in to the 6th tuning on the fly without lifting the bar. It does not get in the way for me, (you can specify if you want it on the right or left end of the deck).
But if your Copedant doesn't use one then specify that when you specify if you want any other switches or knobs on the deck.

David Munson · From: St. Louis, Missouri, USA

On my 2006 version Excel guitar, !st model of the See-Saw, the right side knee levers are different for E9 and B6. Yes two different functions.

On the latest version that Greg has, I thought the pedals ABC have different pulls also when the lock lever is pulled in lock. Greg just informed me ...Not true.

Which leads me to ask. Wouldn't it be an great idea of different pulls (Knees and Pedals) on different tunings, that maybe a new Nashville Number concept tuning.

Pedal AB (IV) when in E9 and B-6 same pedal to equal pedal 6?

How about the minor pulls and 7th chords show up on the same pedal or knee lever in both tunings?

Just wondering..

Paul Brainard · From: Portland OR

David, what you are talking about was accomplished by the Shobud/Baldwin Crossover, and in a much-improved form by Bill Rudolph in his Williams D-10 400X crossover (no longer made) - of which I had one. I was a great concept, there was an axle that ran down the length of the undercarriage, in the middle, along which were positioned intermediate "actuators" that linked each pedal/lever to a cross-shaft on one side or the other, depending on which way the axle was flipped (by a handle under the changer end.) Essentially is was a 5+5 E9 and a 5+5 C6 in one guitar - on separate necks, but one set of pedals/knees. The thing that I found difficult was getting the positioning & feel (throw) of the pedals & knee levers how I wanted from one side to the other, there were always compromises. And, the ergonomics of the C6 was different than normal since they were all the way to the left on the rack. Plus, it was fairly heavy. . . but if your RKR functions are changed by the gearshift (however it does that) then it seems like the principle could be extended to the rest of the copedant. . .

Ian Rae · From: Redditch, England

I mentioned above (back in December) that the time had come to change the strings on my long-scale uni 12, so yesterday I fitted the spare set of GHSs that Mitsuo supplied with the new instrument.

I like the new anchor system with the separate post and locking screw. I found it best to tighten at the changer end until the pitch is about a half tone under, then finish off at the nut end. All went well, including the notorious high G# which went straight up to pitch without breaking.

Then I noticed that instead of sitting in the groove of the roller nut, it was on the shoulder (which is flat, not chamfered, so it can). So I slackened it, reset it and tightened it whereupon (guess what) it popped - which in fairness is not unreasonable when it's already been bent to a certain radius and is on the limit anyway.

I didn't have another GHS so I tried an Ernie Ball, a d'Addario and a Rotosound - all of which I use elsewhere and trust. All of them failed but only at the ball end or in the middle - not at the changer so I knew that the finger design and my wrapping technique were not to blame. After all, the old string had been mashed for two years without breaking. I figured that the original fitment was the only way to go.

It took me a while to track down GHS singles but some arrived this morning and I have one on and working - tonight's jam session will test it nicely!

I don't which other brands are up to this extreme test but I shall stick to GHS for the foreseeable.

Incidentally, although the method of anchoring the strings is a world away from a conventional keyhead, the same rules apply: the fattest strings have little more than one turn round the post, whereas the thinnest need half a dozen.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs

Ross Shafer · From: Petaluma, California

Hi Ian,

Does your Excel have a 25.5" scale?

Ian Rae · From: Redditch, England

Ross, yes it does, and my omitting to state it clearly spoils the story. I didn't know it was going to be, but it arrived that way. Mitsuo clearly believes that it's desirable on a uni, and the low range certainly has more punch than my beautiful but shorter 24.25" Williams.

Glad you asked.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs

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