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Topic: Looking for some info and advice on an old steel guitar |
Russell Melton
From:
Austin, Texas
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Posted 1 Mar 2020 8:10 pm |
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Hey everyone, first time poster,
So to preface this, my grandfather was a really talented pedal steel guitar player. I have very little knowledge of the instrument personally. Sadly, when I was younger I was more interested in electric guitar, and never took the time to learn from him before he passed.
Some 20 years later, I have my home studio set up, working on an album, and I really wanted to pay homage in a sense. Aside from using the very first guitar he bought me for a lot of it, I wanted to do a few parts with one of his old steel guitars. I have 2 of his pedal steels, which are in much better shape than this one, but the pedal steel seems like something that will take me years to get an understanding of, and I wanted to start to with this one.
https://imgur.com/a/uKNsOwQ
https://imgur.com/a/wx9ZgmC
https://youtu.be/6_yJZs0MXP4
These are some pictures. It's in pretty rough shape. I've been told that its a 50's era Fender Dual 8. It does play and make noise, but there are some issues.
Two of the tuners, on the top left and top right corner are badly bent. I was able to unwind them to get the strings off, but they are really tough to work with with a lot of resistance in certain positions.
The pickup selector doesn't have positions anymore, it just slides freely from one side to the other, and is very noisy when doing so.
I've removed the strings and cleaned it off a bit. But I'm left with quite a few questions.
What type of tuning should I go with for this?
Do the strings for these instruments come in packs, or do you just buy the individual string gauge that you need, and are they just standard guitar strings?
Should I swap out any of the electronics for better newer parts, or just keep it in the condition it's in considering the age of the instrument?
Mainly just looking for some general advice and resources on what I should to have this ready to record on a few songs, which, at this point I'm thinking just some new strings would get me there, since it does play and I want to keep it as stock as possible.
Thanks so much for any help and advice! |
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David Matzenik
From:
Cairns, on the Coral Sea
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Posted 1 Mar 2020 8:28 pm
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Well, you certainly have a fine family heirloom there, and you have come to the right place. Dual neck and Fender players will advise you, I am sure. But on the string packs, you only need go to the link at the top of the page.
_________________
Don't go in the water after lunch. You'll get a cramp and drown. - Mother. |
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Bill McCloskey
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Russell Melton
From:
Austin, Texas
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Posted 2 Mar 2020 2:51 pm
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| David Matzenik wrote: |
| Well, you certainly have a fine family heirloom there, and you have come to the right place. Dual neck and Fender players will advise you, I am sure. But on the string packs, you only need go to the link at the top of the page. |
Thank you! Just put in an order for a few sets. The more I get into researching steels the more the more I'm feeling like I'll be making a trip to my hometown to pick up the two pedal steels as well pretty soon. After years of playing guitar bass and keys, this instrument seems to have a personality that none of the others come close to. |
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Jim Pitman
From:
Waterbury Ctr. VT 05677 USA
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Posted 2 Mar 2020 3:28 pm
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I just bought an old 1950 lap steel. My first inclination with getting on an old instrument back in to service is to take it all apart clean it, remove rust with navel jelly and fine steel wool, straighten and replace tuner knobs as necessary, steam out wood dents, touch up the finish if easily accomplished.......etc.
I just can't help myself.
There are people who advertise this service. In fact, I could spend $300.00 dollars to make my $200.00 dollar purchase be worth $400.00 so I always wind up putting in the labor myself. (albeit your Fender is worth more than that of course.) |
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Jack Hanson
From:
San Luis Valley, USA
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Posted 2 Mar 2020 5:28 pm
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| Jim Pitman wrote: |
| I could spend $300.00 dollars to make my $200.00 dollar purchase be worth $400.00 |
The way I look at it, you're doing rather well. I usually spend about $300 to make my $200 purchase worth about... $200. |
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Russell Melton
From:
Austin, Texas
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Posted 2 Mar 2020 7:16 pm
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| Jim Pitman wrote: |
I just bought an old 1950 lap steel. My first inclination with getting on an old instrument back in to service is to take it all apart clean it, remove rust with navel jelly and fine steel wool, straighten and replace tuner knobs as necessary, steam out wood dents, touch up the finish if easily accomplished.......etc.
I just can't help myself.
There are people who advertise this service. In fact, I could spend $300.00 dollars to make my $200.00 dollar purchase be worth $400.00 so I always wind up putting in the labor myself. (albeit your Fender is worth more than that of course.) |
Considering you've got some experience in this area, what would be your method to straighten out tuning keys? Two of them are badly bent. They still function, but there is a lot of resistance at certain angles. I was told that the tuners on this are very difficult to replace if they break. Or am I better off just dealing with it, considering I'll still be able to get it tuned up and playing |
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Jim Pitman
From:
Waterbury Ctr. VT 05677 USA
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Posted 3 Mar 2020 2:15 am
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Russel, there's always risk of course........and I'm not familiar with that Fender recessed keyhead...but this is what I'd attempt:
You need to apply a force opposite to the one that bent it originally. Usually things that bend without breaking can be bent back. I was going to suggest pounding the shaft against a hard massive metal surface like an anvil to straighten it out but without a close up pic of the key I cannot conclude that would be appropriate. If the bend is right at the frame for example it would be difficult to do without damaging the frame. If the frame is massively strong you may be able to apply a force against it (vice grips on shaft). |
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Jim Pitman
From:
Waterbury Ctr. VT 05677 USA
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Posted 3 Mar 2020 2:26 am
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I see why they are hard to replace - metal knob. If you are going to grip those with a wrench, sandwich the knobs between the tangs of the wrench with two sheets of rubber, ~ 1/8" thick, so as not to mar them.
It would be best if the wrench only gripped the shaft in any case so as not to risk breaking the knobs off.
Last edited by Jim Pitman on 3 Mar 2020 2:29 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Nic Neufeld
From:
Kansas City, Missouri
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Posted 3 Mar 2020 2:28 am
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If you want to get to the music sooner and delay the work a bit, if your bad tuners are on one neck, you might just string up the other neck in a 6th tuning and start learning there. As a new player multiple tunings/necks aren't too much use yet, I would stick to one tuning initially. And then you can not have to struggle with the tuner issues immediately (unless problem is on both necks of course)
_________________
Waikīkī, at night when the shadows are falling
I hear the rolling surf calling
Calling and calling to me |
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Jim Pitman
From:
Waterbury Ctr. VT 05677 USA
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Posted 3 Mar 2020 2:32 am
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Good point Knick. I diverged form the topic a bit.
Jack, your assessment is probably closer to the truth.  |
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Glenn Wilde
From:
California, USA
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Posted 3 Mar 2020 3:35 am
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Very nice guitar. The thing about straightening bent tuners is to not put any stress on the tuner body, gear or brackets when you are trying to straighten the shaft. I honestly recommend you either have someone with experience do it or leave it alone for now. I like the suggestion to just learn one neck first.
Looking at your pictures it appears that the outside neck has the better tuning pan, you could move that pan to the inside, tune it up to C6 and start learning. Meanwhile you could send the damaged one off for repair. |
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Russell Melton
From:
Austin, Texas
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Posted 3 Mar 2020 8:59 am
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| Nic Neufeld wrote: |
| If you want to get to the music sooner and delay the work a bit, if your bad tuners are on one neck, you might just string up the other neck in a 6th tuning and start learning there. As a new player multiple tunings/necks aren't too much use yet, I would stick to one tuning initially. And then you can not have to struggle with the tuner issues immediately (unless problem is on both necks of course) |
I may try very gently to do that. And if it feels sketchy at any point just leave it be until I can get it done professionally. |
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Russell Melton
From:
Austin, Texas
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Posted 3 Mar 2020 9:02 am
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| Nic Neufeld wrote: |
| If you want to get to the music sooner and delay the work a bit, if your bad tuners are on one neck, you might just string up the other neck in a 6th tuning and start learning there. As a new player multiple tunings/necks aren't too much use yet, I would stick to one tuning initially. And then you can not have to struggle with the tuner issues immediately (unless problem is on both necks of course) |
Unfortunately, theres one really bad bend on each neck, the 4th string on the close neck and the 5th string on the far neck. However, I was able to unwind them so I should be able to string it back up without much issue. I ordered strings yesterday so I can follow up when they get here and I give it a go. |
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Andy Henriksen
From:
Michigan, USA
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Posted 3 Mar 2020 10:03 am
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| Russell Melton wrote: |
| Nic Neufeld wrote: |
| If you want to get to the music sooner and delay the work a bit, if your bad tuners are on one neck, you might just string up the other neck in a 6th tuning and start learning there. As a new player multiple tunings/necks aren't too much use yet, I would stick to one tuning initially. And then you can not have to struggle with the tuner issues immediately (unless problem is on both necks of course) |
Unfortunately, theres one really bad bend on each neck, the 4th string on the close neck and the 5th string on the far neck. However, I was able to unwind them so I should be able to string it back up without much issue. I ordered strings yesterday so I can follow up when they get here and I give it a go. |
If they do give you trouble, just as a way to get playing music ASAP, you could string up one or both necks as a 7 string, and just skip the bent tuners. Your string break angles wouldn't be as consistent, but I bet it would work ok. As someone new to steel, there's a very deep well of music that can be made on just 6 strings, and some phenomenal players never move beyond that. 7, of course, gives you even more options. |
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Tim Whitlock
From:
Colorado, USA
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Posted 3 Mar 2020 12:18 pm
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Players familiar with these guitars know that the bent tuners can be replaced with standard strip tuners like these:
https://www.stewmac.com/Hardware_and_Parts/Tuning_Machines/Slotted_Peghead_Guitar_Tuning_Machines/Golden_Age_Restoration_Tuners_for_12-String_Slotted_Peghead_Guitar.html
Process:
1. The tuning keys are soldered onto the shaft. Using a propane or butane torch apply heat and remove the keys from the bent shafts. You can get a small torch at Home Deport for about $20.
2. Remove tuning pan.
3. The tuning machines are held onto the pan with solder. Apply heat and remove the bad ones.
4. Cut replacement machines off the strip of new tuners.
5. Using lead free plumbers solder, solder the new machines onto the pan.
6. Solder the keys onto the new shafts.
7. Screw the pan back onto the guitar. Done!
It's just a little tricky but anyone with basic mechanical skills can do this. I think it took about an hour for me to replace two bent machines on my first try. |
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