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Topic: iPhone-based silent practicing and effects devices? |
Stuart Anderson
From:
Minnesota, USA
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Posted 2 Mar 2020 10:26 am |
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| Curious about what the PSG experts here recommend for super-compact devices / interfaces (similar to the I-Rig or I-Rig2) that connect to iPhones and make it possible to use phone-based sound effects and recording apps (Garage Band, others) for practicing through headphones, recording, and/or playing through an amplifier. I'd be very interested to know what people have tried, what works and what doesn't work with PSGs. All suggestions and comments welcome! |
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Lee Baucum
From:
McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier
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Posted 2 Mar 2020 10:29 am
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I'm curious to see what you find out.
I will say one thing, though.
Please do not use the apps while driving!
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Adam Tracksler
From:
Maine, USA
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Posted 2 Mar 2020 2:13 pm
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I'm on my way down this rabbit hole.
I'm currently running Bias Amp and Bias FX on my iPad.
I had been using a Line 6 Sonic Port VX, which I have for sale in the classifieds, but recently upgraded to an Xtone Smart Stomp, since it has midi changes for switching patches and I can put an expression pedal into it.
I've found that Bias can do a stellar job for me with all of the effects I could possibly need (I can have 10 reverbs, if I want) and a bunch of really good amp sims. Most of my presets are on the cloud with my initals (ABT).
I can plug into an amp or PA, or just practice with headphones and get a lot of great tone. I'm considering ditiching my stombox setup.
In the past Ive also used the GuitarJack Stage, as well as the Apogee Gio and a KMI Softstep... but recently have gone to a less is more and the setup I have now seems to do the trick for me at the moment.
I also had a Mod devices Duo, and saw their kickstarter for their new pedal, which intrigues the heck out of me.
I run all of these into a Drive CD20 bass amp, or my JC-77.
I'm happy to answer any questions you all may have.
Last edited by Adam Tracksler on 3 Mar 2020 7:39 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Bill A. Moore
From:
Silver City, New Mexico, USA
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Posted 2 Mar 2020 2:28 pm
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| Lee, surely you don't play your guitar while driving? |
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Lee Baucum
From:
McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier
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Posted 2 Mar 2020 3:54 pm
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| Bill A. Moore wrote: |
| Lee, surely you don't play your guitar while driving? |
Nope, and I don't use my iPhone while driving, either!
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Bill A. Moore
From:
Silver City, New Mexico, USA
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Posted 2 Mar 2020 4:05 pm
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I find it odd that folks have driven millions of miles while using 2 way radios, but somehow a telephone isn't acceptable.
(I also wonder if the cop that pulls you over for using your phone was driving while using his radio?) |
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Larry Dering
From:
Missouri, USA
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Posted 2 Mar 2020 4:26 pm
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| The Dukes of Hazzard with Roscoe in hot pursuit on his radio? Car 54 where are you? 2 way radio's don't have texting or smart phone features so a visual isn't necessary. But I have seen police using smartphones and driving in our area. |
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Greg Cutshaw
From:
Corry, PA, USA
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Posted 2 Mar 2020 6:43 pm
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The smart phone takes far more attention away from the road than the 2-way radios ever did. Having a keyboard and a screen available really takes your focus off of driving. NO reason not to have a hands free phone system which is far safer though still a distraction.
The Bias setup seems a lot like the Kemper and Fractal setups but less expensive and you're not paying for the hardware per se. Same goes for the under development Quad Cortex. These setups offer way more features and sounds than anyone could ever hope to get in a combo amp. |
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Michael Brebes
From:
Northridge CA
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Posted 3 Mar 2020 6:50 am
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I've used the Line 6 Sonic Port with the free amp/fx simulator software. I even used it for recording demo tapes once to get better isolation and control of my sound. It worked fine for guitar but didn't try it for pedal steel, but there were a lot of options.
_________________
Michael Brebes
Instrument/amp/ pickup repair
MSA D10 Classic/Rickenbacher B6/
Dickerson MOTS/Dobro D32 Hawaiian/
Goldtone Paul Beard Reso
Mesa Boogie Studio Pre/Hafler 3000
RP1/MPX100 |
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Adam Tracksler
From:
Maine, USA
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Posted 3 Mar 2020 7:41 am
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Between Garage Band and the Bias Programs, I have a whole recording studio in my pocket.
I like the Garage band intelligent drummers, and I just am starting to use Loopy to make loops. |
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John McClung
From:
Olympia WA, USA
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Posted 3 Mar 2020 8:33 am
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following...
_________________
E9 INSTRUCTION
▪️ If you want to have an ongoing discussion, please email me, don't use the Forum messaging which I detest! steelguitarlessons@earthlink.net |
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Stuart Anderson
From:
Minnesota, USA
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Posted 5 Mar 2020 1:04 pm
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Thanks so much Adam, Michael and Greg for the info, and to everyone else for the good humor. Always good to lighten the day.
Adam, just curious since you didn't actually say, but are you using these tools with a pedal steel or a 6-string?
Greg, thanks for the context on the Kemper systems. That's certainly the goal, though for most of us it's financially out of reach. My hope is that Moore's Law just might by now have delivered enough of that capability to a cost level that is more accessible.
The Line 6 Sonic Port seems to have run afoul of the Apple App police as far as I can tell. Always a risk with these things, I guess. Is that still the case, Adam, Michael?
Has anyone out there tried an Irig - particularly the newer ones, like the Irig HD 2? Sweetwater just started a sale on these at $20 off (so $80 a pop with free shipping). With 24 bit digitization and all the rest it seems like it just might work for the cleaner sounds that most pedal steel players prefer. At this price I'm tempted to buy one just to find out. (Honest, I don't work for Sweetwater or the Irig folks - just looking for a super compact way to enjoy playing PSG no matter what the conditions are.) |
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Michael Brebes
From:
Northridge CA
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Posted 6 Mar 2020 6:17 am
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The Line 6 SonicPort uses the "Mobile POD" app on my iPhone and iPad. Haven't tried it with any other apps.
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Michael Brebes
Instrument/amp/ pickup repair
MSA D10 Classic/Rickenbacher B6/
Dickerson MOTS/Dobro D32 Hawaiian/
Goldtone Paul Beard Reso
Mesa Boogie Studio Pre/Hafler 3000
RP1/MPX100 |
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Adam Tracksler
From:
Maine, USA
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Posted 6 Mar 2020 7:40 am
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I’ve used it with pedal and non pedal. Works great. And regular guitar too 😂
I’ve used the original irig. And the irig pro. Both worked great. I haven’t had any issues with the sonic port and any apps either. |
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Stuart Anderson
From:
Minnesota, USA
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Posted 24 Mar 2020 7:04 pm report coming...
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| So I bought an iRig HD 2 and spent some time exploring it with pedal steel. I'll post more detail later, but the short story is that it works pretty well if you set it up carefully, use the right amp sims, and use the iPhone's headphone jack for headphones or ear buds. Details to follow shortly - got to write it up before I get to the 'post reply' box. |
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Marty Broussard
From:
Broussard, Louisiana, USA
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Posted 24 Mar 2020 7:58 pm
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Following to learn....
_________________
RETIRED
"Technique is really the elimination of the unnecessary..it is a constant effort to avoid any personal impediment or obstacle to achieve the smooth flow of energy and intent" Yehudi Menuhin |
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Michael Butler
From:
California, USA
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Posted 26 Mar 2020 8:31 am
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| Lee Baucum wrote: |
I'm curious to see what you find out.
I will say one thing, though.
Please do not use the apps while driving!
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i couldn't get my steel and me in the driver's seat much well my phone and connections. tight fit in a mini cooper!
play music!
_________________
please see my Snakeskin's Virtual Music Museum below.
http://muscmp.wordpress.com/ |
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Robert Crenwelge
From:
Fredericksburg, Texas, USA
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Posted 29 Mar 2020 4:25 pm
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I use a Vox Classic practice amp, it’s small, has multiple effects (reverb, chorus, distortion and no effect for dry signal) it has volume and tone controls along with 3.5mm input (from my iPhone or computer) 3.5mm output for headphone or computer speakers.
You can pick them up from Guitar center or online for about $35
I love it, it’s great for practicing and I use it with earbuds for tuning at live events when the DJ’s are playing tunes. I never have to worry about being to loud or others on stage being to loud.
_________________
82 Emmons PP, Quilter Steelaire Rack, Vistage JBL, Hilton Pedal, BJS Bars and John Pearse strings! |
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Robert Crenwelge
From:
Fredericksburg, Texas, USA
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Posted 29 Mar 2020 4:26 pm
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That should read Vox Clean, not classic
_________________
82 Emmons PP, Quilter Steelaire Rack, Vistage JBL, Hilton Pedal, BJS Bars and John Pearse strings! |
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Patrick Huey
From:
Nacogdoches, Texas, USA
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Posted 4 Apr 2020 4:21 am
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| Marty Broussard wrote: |
| Following to learn.... |
I have disliked the “modeled†sound my steel had playing through various apps....just couldn’t find one that steel sounded like steel...my solution....I have a four channel Yamaha mini mixer I can run into either direct from power amp out on my NV 400 or direct from my Profex II into mixer then run my iPhone into mixer and out into headphones. This works great and without the often “tinny†fake sound you get using stuff like Garage Band and other apps designed primarily for guitar. It also allows me to adjust volume of both the guitar and the input from iPhone independently. My guitar sounds like a ....well like a Mullen through a NV 400 lol
The mini mixer is small and compact and has a mike stand attachment I can clamp to front right leg of steel if I want
_________________
Pre RP Mullen D10 8/7, Zum 3/4, Carter S-10 3/4, previous Cougar SD-10 3/4 & GFI S-10 3/4, Fender Steel King, 2 Peavey Session 500's, Peavey Nashville 400, Boss DD-3, Profex-II, Hilton Digital Sustain, '88 Les Paul Custom,Epiphone MBIBG J-45, Fender Strat & Tele's, Takamine acoustics, Marshall amps, Boss effects, Ibanez Tube Screamer, and it all started with an old cranky worn out Kay acoustic you could slide a Mack truck between the strings and fretboard on!! |
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Stuart Anderson
From:
Minnesota, USA
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Posted 5 Apr 2020 11:18 am initial iRig HD 2testing report
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Here’s the report I promised on March 24. The iRig HD 2 works for me on my iPhone, though careful setup and sim choices are needed. Details follow. Apologies in advance for this being so long. 'Seemed like providing more info might be more helpful than just registering a yea/nay or expressing my opinion. Though it's largely opinion anyway, I guess, when it comes to sounds we prefer.
Tonal Reference: I wanted to replicate what I enjoy at significant, but safe volume levels (several notches below ear-splitting) from my ‘out-loud’ setup, which is an MSA Millennium M3 U12 (George L E-66) into a Fender Steel King. The SK is loafing under these circumstances in my 12x12x8 music room, so it’s a rather clean sound.
Method: Optimization of the iRig HD 2 was done ‘out-loud’ through the Steel King with ‘flat’ tone control settings in a search for iRig HD 2 choices that replicated the sound of my preferred settings on the Steel King. I then listen-tested these via my Sennheiser and AKG headphones to check whether it worked as well in ‘silent practicing’ mode.
Here’s what I’ve discovered so far:
1) Input Gain: Needs to be set very low - lower than the iRig instructions and LED indicator suggest - in order to get distortion-free articulation. For my setup this was at about 1/8 of the range of the adjustment thumbwheel (half of a finger-swipe off the bottom).
2) Latency: Set to ‘low’ instead of ‘ultra low’. Too much ‘popping and clicking’ for my tastes with the ‘ultra low’ settings. There’s another setting that affects this, too, but I forget what it is. I used the conservative choices. This didn’t seem to produce any delays or other acoustical oddities.
3) Amp Simulations: Several of the amp sims included with Garage Band worked well for me. The best GB amp sims were the Small Tweed, Blackface, Small Brownface (my current favorite) and the Clean Amp. The controls on the GB amps are easy to manipulate and can be accessed and viewed simultaneously on the iPhone screen.
The best of the free AmpliTube sims for my purposes were the ‘Clean’ (blackface appearance) and the Bass, which is even cleaner. The speaker cabinets can be selected separately from the amps, and they do make a difference. I preferred one of the 4x12 or the 2x12 generic cab sims with the generic amps.
I also purchased and tried both collections of Fender amp sims within AmpliTube, which include the Twin and Deluxe Reverbs among other pedal steel favorites in the real world. There are several more speaker cabinets available within these collections. Initially, none of these worked as well as the generic ‘Clean’ amp, but I discovered I'd left a phaser stomp box effect on by mistake (so many buttons...).
The Twin Reverb sim is the nicest for my purposes. I prefer the Tweed Fender 2x12 cab slightly over the stock Twin Reverb 2x12 (at least right now). I noted that the Deluxe / Twin comparison seems to track what I've seen discussed elsewhere in the SG Forum for the real things. The controls on the iPhone AmpliTube amp sims more difficult to use than those in Garage Band. Only three knobs are displayed at a time and the knob panel has to be slid sideways to see or adjust the other knobs. One can't take in the settings at a glance and more than a few times when I wanted to slide the knob panel I got a knob adjustment instead or vice versa. I need more practice with sliding vs. adjusting.
I have not tried all the cab sims with all the Fender amp sims yet, not to mention trying the Fender cabs with the generic amp sims. I've also not tried the BIAS system at all. I'll try these things and post an update later.
4) Effect simulations: This was not my main focus and I only needed an echo unit since the most of the amps I like all have reverb. I could get what I wanted out of the free units included with both AmpliTube and Garage Band.
5) Signal output path: For out-loud playing through a bigger amplifier (fun, but not my primary goal here) I used the iRig HD 2 amplifier out jack. For headphones or for passing the audio signal to a powered speaker I found the iPhone’s headphone out jack to yield significantly louder and clearer sound than I was able to get from the headphone / AUX out jack on the iRig HD 2 no matter what the output level setting on the iRig HD 2 was.
That’s it for now. More later after I’ve explored speaker cabs in the two AmpliTube Fender amp sim collections and the BIAS amp sims. |
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