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Topic: Has ANYONE tried a Deluxe Reverb Tonemaster for steel?? |
John LeMaster
From:
North Florida
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Posted 23 Feb 2020 12:04 pm |
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Maybe I missed it, but I haven't seen discussion of the new Deluxe Reverb Tonemaster for steel. Lots of discussion about the Twin Tonemaster.
So, the DRTM is 100 watts and a 12 inch speaker, putting it in a range similar to a Nashville 112 or Cube 80.
Has anyone tried the Tonemaster Deluxe Reverb for steel?? Your results?
Inquiring minds and all that....
_________________
Magnum D10, Emmons D10 push-pull
Last edited by John LeMaster on 24 Feb 2020 11:35 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Dan Beller-McKenna
From:
Durham, New Hampshire, USA
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Posted 23 Feb 2020 12:35 pm
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I have not tried one, but there is the requisite caveat about "100" watts. It is rated at "100W into 8Ω (Simulates 22W Tube Amp Performance)." Tube watts and ss watts are, of course, different animals, and I've never compared how a tube DR compares to a Cube 80 or a NV 112. I am guessing the TM DR will break up when you push it (it is designed to emulate a 22w tube amp, afterall), unlike those conventional ss amps.
All that said, I like my TM TR, and 17 lbs (for the DR version) is pretty enticing. |
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John LeMaster
From:
North Florida
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Posted 23 Feb 2020 2:10 pm
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Yes, Dan, my concern is that its "job" is to replicate the tube version.....which I understand will break up more with steel guitar than solid state amps such as Peavey or Cube 80...
If I were buying new, I'd definitely get the Twin TM. A friend nearby has a Deluxe TM for sale...hardly used at all.
Thanks for your input.
_________________
Magnum D10, Emmons D10 push-pull |
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John LeMaster
From:
North Florida
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Posted 24 Feb 2020 1:28 pm Ttt
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Bump....
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Magnum D10, Emmons D10 push-pull |
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Rick Heins
From:
Phoenix, AZ
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Posted 24 Feb 2020 2:17 pm Re: Ttt
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| John LeMaster wrote: |
| Bump.... |
John,
To answer your question, the TM Deluxe is 100 watts Class D power in order to replicate the 22 tube watts of the standard version. Solid State power doesn't react the same way as tube power so adjusting it to be louder helps it be the same volume as the tube version of the Deluxe Reverb.
The Deluxe will definitely break up sooner than the Twin, just like the tube version. The breakup sounds great for guitar but might not be wanted for steel. I've played the TM Deluxe with my steel and it sounds great for smaller gigs but it's not about a ton of headroom and may not work in some band situations if clean is the goal.
Hope this helps. |
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John LeMaster
From:
North Florida
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Posted 24 Feb 2020 2:26 pm Thanks
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Rick, thanks for that good info. What gigs I play are not usually large venues...but...on occasion, I have an outdoor gig or a larger venue indoor.
Your info is exactly what I was seeking. If/when there is a Tonemaster to be obtained, it will be the Twin Reverb variety for me.
Dan said pretty much the same, so it is an easy decision now.
I appreciate the response, guys.
_________________
Magnum D10, Emmons D10 push-pull |
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J Fletcher
From:
London,Ont,Canada
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Posted 25 Feb 2020 4:26 am
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| So how about this idea . Tonemaster Deluxe Reverb with a 200 watt class D power amp , as found in the Twin Reverb , and upgraded speaker to handle the increased power. |
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Dennis Detweiler
From:
Solon, Iowa, US
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Posted 25 Feb 2020 8:31 am
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Took mine back. No place to put the bread in?
_________________
1976 Birdseye U-12 MSA with Telonics 427 pickup, 1975 Birdseye U-12 MSA with Telonics X-12 pickup, Revelation preamp, Carbon Copy Delay and Hall Of Fame Reverb, Crown XLS 1002, 2- 15" Eminence Wheelhouse speakers, ShoBud Pedal, Effects Pedals. 1949 Epiphone D-8. |
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Danny Sherbon
From:
San Angelo, TX
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Posted 25 Feb 2020 3:14 pm Sold mine
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I bought one and used it on 2 jobs and then sold it. The sounded was thin to me even using a Tonic preamp. There's no mid control and with too much volume it broke up a bit. I sold mine.
_________________
MSA Millennium D10, Justice SD 10 Patriot, Rittenberry Prestige,
Tonic,Quilter Mach 3, Nashville 112, Telonics and Hilton Pedal, MPX-1, Pro-Fex |
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Fred Rushing
From:
Odin, IL, USA
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Posted 25 Feb 2020 3:17 pm 22 tube watts to 100 ss watts?
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Help me out here gents. I have a limited electronics education so 22 tube watts and 100 SS watts does not add up ohms law in terms of power. In my years of experience it works like this I Think.
If you apply a test tone to the input of said amp and put a voltmeter across the terminals of the speaker, you would increase the volume until the meter reads x amount of voltage which translates to power. X voltage equals 100 watts. I am simplifying here.
Do the same thing to the 22 watt amp and the 22 watts will produce much less voltage.
Power in watts is equal to the voltage E x I the current.
Now please give me the science showing me 22 tube watts is greater than 100 SS watts.
If the 22 watt tube amp is being overdriven as the are then their producing more than 22 watts.
Inquiring mind wants to know. Not looking for an argument, just the facts behind the long time claim.
Thank you Fred |
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Rick Heins
From:
Phoenix, AZ
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Posted 25 Feb 2020 4:14 pm Re: 22 tube watts to 100 ss watts?
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| Fred Rushing wrote: |
Help me out here gents. I have a limited electronics education so 22 tube watts and 100 SS watts does not add up ohms law in terms of power. In my years of experience it works like this I Think.
If you apply a test tone to the input of said amp and put a voltmeter across the terminals of the speaker, you would increase the volume until the meter reads x amount of voltage which translates to power. X voltage equals 100 watts. I am simplifying here.
Do the same thing to the 22 watt amp and the 22 watts will produce much less voltage.
Power in watts is equal to the voltage E x I the current.
Now please give me the science showing me 22 tube watts is greater than 100 SS watts.
If the 22 watt tube amp is being overdriven as the are then their producing more than 22 watts.
Inquiring mind wants to know. Not looking for an argument, just the facts behind the long time claim.
Thank you Fred |
Fred, it's not greater but the fact is that tube watts are perceived louder because a tube amp has more dynamic ability than a traditional solid state amp.
If an tube amp starts to distort (the tube version is 22 watts clean) it starts to go into the power amp and power tubes and generally distorts in a pleasing way, hence power tube distortion. Solid state watts will not react the same way and you will get unpleasant clipping.
The way we designed the Tone Master amps is so all of the distortion that happens when the amp is cranked is done through modelling so that it is pleasing to the ear. The 100 watts are used so that the guitar signal never gets into the power amp but can still replicate 22 watts of clean sound.
Hope this makes as much sense as it does in my head but keep in mind I am the product development guy, not an engineer.  |
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Fred Rushing
From:
Odin, IL, USA
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Posted 27 Feb 2020 1:44 pm 22w Tm
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Thanks for the reply Rick.
Fred |
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Nick Reed
From:
Russellville, KY USA
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Posted 27 Feb 2020 2:19 pm
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I would think the Tone Master Deluxe Reverb would be way too small for Steel Guitar use. I have both a blackface Deluxe and a Twin with tubes and the Deluxe has just never delivered the kind of bite I like compared to my Twin.
That's why I decided on a new Tone Master Twin Reverb to be my Steel Guitar Amp.
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Gregory Turner
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 28 Feb 2020 5:43 am Twin
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I bought the TM Twin a couple days ago. The tone is unbelievable. Im still trying to dial it in. I havent gigged with it yet. Anyone have any recommendations on EQ settings. Also, I set my wattage at 85. Seems to be plenty head room. Ill find out more after I play it at church this weekend.
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Franklin Pedal Steel #22
Fessenden Sd 10
Little Walter PF89
P2P Bad Dawg
400LTD
Evans Rack mount
Nashville 400
Evans Eighty (with TT-12
Strymon El Capistan
Boss GE 7 |
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Dick Wood
From:
Springtown Texas, USA
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Posted 4 Mar 2020 7:13 am
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I tried one recently and my first impression was it had no bite/punch in the upper mids. It was bassy and the the highs just weren't clean. I did engage the bright switch and it only helped a little. The amp did seem to have good power but just no tone to speak of.
I plugged back in to my Quilter and it was all the difference in the world.
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Cops aren't paid much so I steel at night. |
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Don Sulesky
From:
Citrus County, FL, Orig. from MA & NH
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Posted 5 Apr 2020 2:38 pm New Fender Twin and Deluxe amps
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Within the last month I have tried the new Fender Twin and I found it noisy and could not control the reverb over a setting of 2 1/2.
I didn't have much success with the tone as well, unless I was ready to blow the room out with rock licks, so I returned it and tried the new Deluxe.
Without the mid tone control I found it worse than the Twin to zone in on a tone I could live with, so it went back as well.
My opinion now is my Nashville 112 with Eminence Neo at 34 lbs. is my amp for steel from now on.
_________________
Private one on one lessons available
Member: FSGC, PSGA, TSGA
Co-founder: Florida Steel Guitar Club
"Steel guitar is like playing chess in the dark with three players". Jeff Newman quote from 1997 seminar |
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Larry Dering
From:
Missouri, USA
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Posted 5 Apr 2020 3:15 pm
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| The TM Twin eq I use is mids maxed, bass and treble on 3.5 reverb at 2.5. Sounds great to me. |
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Craig A Davidson
From:
Wisconsin Rapids, Wisconsin USA
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Posted 6 Apr 2020 9:36 am
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| I thought about the Deluxe TM but then went with Twin TM because you can dial the wattage to the same as a Deluxe, (22 watts), plus you have the luxury of a mid control. |
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Ken Metcalf
From:
San Antonio Texas USA
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Posted 6 Apr 2020 11:30 am
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The Deluxe amp is loud enough and has a very good line out.
The question would be how loud is your bands stage volume.
If you can run a little in a monitor it should cover most situations.
Some bands are too loud for a twin.
The thing I like about both these amps is you can get a little grit or a lot of grit with good clarity.
The grit sounds better than most compressors or overdrive effects.
I have used the Deluxe for my six string but have no gigs at the moment.
They can also be very clean sounding.
_________________
MSA 12 String E9th/B6th Universal.
Little Walter PF-89.
Bunch of stomp boxes |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 6 Apr 2020 12:16 pm Re: New Fender Twin and Deluxe amps
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| Don Sulesky wrote: |
Within the last month I have tried the new Fender Twin and I found it noisy and could not control the reverb over a setting of 2 1/2.
I didn't have much success with the tone as well, unless I was ready to blow the room out with rock licks, so I returned it and tried the new Deluxe.
Without the mid tone control I found it worse than the Twin to zone in on a tone I could live with, so it went back as well.
My opinion now is my Nashville 112 with Eminence Neo at 34 lbs. is my amp for steel from now on. |
Don, you are a party pooper ! 
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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Don Sulesky
From:
Citrus County, FL, Orig. from MA & NH
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Posted 9 Apr 2020 11:18 am
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Tony
As we all know tone is subjective.
For the venues I play, they just didn't suit my need. 
_________________
Private one on one lessons available
Member: FSGC, PSGA, TSGA
Co-founder: Florida Steel Guitar Club
"Steel guitar is like playing chess in the dark with three players". Jeff Newman quote from 1997 seminar |
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Erik Alderink
From:
Ann Arbor Michigan, USA
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Posted 14 Apr 2020 4:22 am
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I own one, and have gigged with it exclusively since September. It replaced my Quilter MicroPro 2 HDs. It’s more than loud enough, and has plenty of power and gobs of low end. I don’t play ridiculously loud, and I’ve never needed it at anything above the 12 watt setting. That was with an 8 piece band with horns and the amp stayed clean. Most of the time it’s on the 5 watt setting and is still plenty loud. I used tube twins, standels, and all sorts of “proper “ amps in the past and I’m not looking back.
I know that my style and tastes are not necessarily in line with the consensus on this site, but I will say that the Deluxe is a very useful amp for many players. |
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Peter Benjamins
From:
California, USA
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Posted 17 Sep 2020 12:38 pm Re: 22 tube watts to 100 ss watts?
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Fred: When tube amps are over driven they tend to produce odd harmonics which are musical, solid state amps when they are over driven also produce even harmonics which are not musical (the fundamental and second harmonic for example are dissonant or any other single tonal interval).
In PA system or movie theater work the tube to solid state multiplier was 10. A 10 to 15 watt tube amp driving a Voice of the Theater speaker system would need at least a 100 to 150 watt solid state amp. (In the early days many theater owners would walk out on you if you told them that.) You just could not risk clipping the amp even a little bit! Not as bad as over driving a digital signal, but still very audible and undesirable.
| Fred Rushing wrote: |
Help me out here gents. I have a limited electronics education so 22 tube watts and 100 SS watts does not add up ohms law in terms of power. In my years of experience it works like this I Think.
If you apply a test tone to the input of said amp and put a voltmeter across the terminals of the speaker, you would increase the volume until the meter reads x amount of voltage which translates to power. X voltage equals 100 watts. I am simplifying here.
Do the same thing to the 22 watt amp and the 22 watts will produce much less voltage.
Power in watts is equal to the voltage E x I the current.
Now please give me the science showing me 22 tube watts is greater than 100 SS watts.
If the 22 watt tube amp is being overdriven as the are then their producing more than 22 watts.
Inquiring mind wants to know. Not looking for an argument, just the facts behind the long time claim.
Thank you Fred |
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Ken Metcalf
From:
San Antonio Texas USA
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Posted 17 Sep 2020 1:30 pm
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The Fender Tone Master amps have a 5-way power attenuator and it works very well in my opinion. I have a Twin and a Deluxe.
Fender says.
The 5-way power attenuator transparently reduces wattage to let you achieve just the right tube-flavored cluck and breakup for any live and studio setting. You also get an XLR balanced output with your choice of flat-response or two onboard cab simulations for silent performance and recording.
_________________
MSA 12 String E9th/B6th Universal.
Little Walter PF-89.
Bunch of stomp boxes |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 17 Sep 2020 2:07 pm
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| Dan Beller-McKenna wrote: |
| I have not tried one, but there is the requisite caveat about "100" watts. It is rated at "100W into 8Ω (Simulates 22W Tube Amp Performance)." Tube watts and ss watts are, of course, different animals, and I've never compared how a tube DR compares to a Cube 80 or a NV 112. I am guessing the TM DR will break up when you push it (it is designed to emulate a 22w tube amp, afterall), unlike those conventional ss amps. |
I'll explain it this way. Most people looking for (or using) a 22-watt amp will be looking for breakup. And, most people using a 100-watt (or more) amp, aren't. You see, one thing that many players fail to realize is that whenever amps are tested for output, the testing is done with all tone controls set wide-open. But turning the controls down to where you get "your tone" (what I refer to as "tone-sculpting") can sometimes reduce the total power available by 20% to 50%. Therefore, a 100-watt amp set for a specific tone may yield only half it's rated power, or 50 watts. Far lower, but still a respectable figure. However, when you're using a 22-watt amp, and you reduce the output by 20% to 50%, you only have a few watts left. Then you overdrive to get enough volume, and while that's acceptable for straight guitarists, it's a no-go for pedal steel players, who almost never want distortion.
As far as the "tube watts v. solid-state watts" argument goes, the differences are almost non-existent...until you get into distortion! Then, the tube's ability to put out more-than-rated power and even-order harmonics comes into play. Again, manufacturers rate amps at a fairly low distortion level, but that's not the way they're always used. So, a really cranked 22-watt tube amp could put out twice that amount, and you might even like the sound. Not so for a solid-state amp, where the majority of the harmonic content is odd, and the distortion is harsher and edgier. |
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