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Topic: Piano (Keys) and Pedal Steel one amp? |
Mack Quinney
From:
Texas, USA
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Posted 18 Feb 2020 3:38 pm |
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So I play both Pedal Steel and Keys (mostly piano) in my band. Currently I’m routing the steel through a digitech 1101 processor direct to the PA and the keys through a DI to the PA with all stage sound coming back through an in-ear monitor mix.
If I wanted to run both steel and keys through one amp, what would you suggest? Keep in mind the steel needs reverb, the keys do not in that effects are built into the specific keyboard sound patch.
What say ya?
Thanks
Mack
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76 Emmons Push Pull, Williams 600, ShoBud Pro I, MSA Classic, Remington SteelMaster dbl 8, MSA Super Slide dbl 8, Gold Tone 6, And other instruments and equipment I can't afford.
Last edited by Mack Quinney on 18 Feb 2020 5:30 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Bill Moore
From:
Manchester, Michigan
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Posted 18 Feb 2020 4:43 pm
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| All you need is a small mixer. Keep using the Digitech for the steel and the DI for the keys. Use 2 channels of the mixer, mixer output to the amp. |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 18 Feb 2020 4:43 pm
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I would say that any amp that's clean enough for steel will be fine for keys, especially if it has a second input after the effects loop.
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Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Corbin Pratt
From:
KY
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Posted 20 Feb 2020 5:55 am
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I also do the keys and steel setup. I've used a twin reverb, a milkman half and half and a Kemper. They all work super well. I'd probably give the edge to the Milkman due to the 15" speaker. As stated above, running direct through DI for the keys is another great option.
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CP in Nashville
Show Pro SD-10, Shaw Amplifiers, Kemper |
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Mack Quinney
From:
Texas, USA
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Posted 20 Feb 2020 10:04 am
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Thanks Guys.
I have a Leslie LS2215 with four channels. I’m thinking the Steel through the digitech 1101, then to the Leslie. Keys direct to Leslie. XLRs our of Leslie to the FOH board and monitors, XLR from digitech 1101 to FOH and monitor board.
This would give me several things. First one amp on stage with a 15†speaker. Second, it’s a clean amp with lots of head room to handle the steel. Third, it would send a stereo signal to the board for the keys, and if I send a separate signal from the 1101 to the board I might be able to control any volume issues between the Leslie and the 1101. Not sure, because now I will have three channels to the board with steel to try and control.
Maybe a splitter Isa better option. Send signal to the board prior to the Leslie. Still one amp on stage, and the steel and keys would be on separate channels on the PA board.......... decision decisions.......
Thoughts?
_________________
76 Emmons Push Pull, Williams 600, ShoBud Pro I, MSA Classic, Remington SteelMaster dbl 8, MSA Super Slide dbl 8, Gold Tone 6, And other instruments and equipment I can't afford. |
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Brandon Mills
From:
Victoria, TX. USA
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Posted 20 Feb 2020 11:43 am
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The LS2215 looks like it would be fine to amplify both keys and steel, but you would only send the stereo outs from the amp to the board instead of sending the amp and the digitech to the board. Otherwise you will be sending steel to the keyboard channel AND steel channel.
You stated that the band is using IEMs and it seems like you are wanting to have some sound on the stage. I would consider receiving your monitor mix to a decent quality powered 15†monitor instead of using an amp. This way you can continue to have separate channels mixed accordingly out front. |
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Roger Crawford
From:
Griffin, GA USA
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Posted 20 Feb 2020 12:50 pm
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| I’ve had a keyboard player go through my NV112 when his amp was in the shop. Sounded pretty darned good. |
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Mack Quinney
From:
Texas, USA
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Posted 20 Feb 2020 1:50 pm
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Brandon,
Sorry I’m not being very clear. I’m moving away from the in-ears for a few venues who have their own PA system. I’m basically looking to haul one amp for use with both instruments and still send a stereo pair for the key to the board, and a separate steel signal to the board. I think a splitter might do that. If I plug the steel and keys into the Leslie and send a signal from the Leslie you are correct I will have steel in the keys channel on the board.
It’s all making my head hurt!
Thanks for your response.
Mack
_________________
76 Emmons Push Pull, Williams 600, ShoBud Pro I, MSA Classic, Remington SteelMaster dbl 8, MSA Super Slide dbl 8, Gold Tone 6, And other instruments and equipment I can't afford. |
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Ken Metcalf
From:
San Antonio Texas USA
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Posted 20 Feb 2020 2:05 pm
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Hey Mack ^_^
Test a Fender Tonemaster Twin.
I got one after hearing our piano guy with one.
Low piano notes are full and clear.
33 Lbs
_________________
MSA 12 String E9th/B6th Universal.
Little Walter PF-89.
Bunch of stomp boxes |
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Brandon Mills
From:
Victoria, TX. USA
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Posted 20 Feb 2020 2:08 pm
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| Yes I understood you are moving away from IEMs, which is why I suggested a powered wedge. Regardless of how you get your sound on stage, IEM, wedge, or amplifier, you need to be able to have separate sends for each instrument or have both instruments through the same send. Trying to send steel in one channel and steel + keys in another is only gonna get your signal turned down out front because no FOH is gonna deal with that. |
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Brandon Mills
From:
Victoria, TX. USA
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Posted 20 Feb 2020 2:15 pm
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| Like I said, the Leslie amp looks perfect especially if you already have one. Just send the L/R outs to the mixers and you’re good to go. |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Mack Quinney
From:
Texas, USA
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Posted 21 Feb 2020 4:48 am
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Ken,
I tested the Tone Master amp at GC with a Tele. I thought it sounded great and very close to a tube twin. It’s something I’ve been eyeballing. Good to know it sounds good with keys.
Bob,
The Leslie is my weight loss program!😉 ha ha
I guess my real problem is how do I get both instrument to FOH on separate channels and only have one amp or monitor on stage. The gains will be different for each instrument, and we won’t have someone to tweak knobs each time I change between instruments.
I’m going to have to send the signal for each instrument prior to hitting the amp. The digitech is easy in that it has both line level and mixer outs. Keyboard not so much. Maybe a different DI or a preamp of some sort on the keys.
Mack
_________________
76 Emmons Push Pull, Williams 600, ShoBud Pro I, MSA Classic, Remington SteelMaster dbl 8, MSA Super Slide dbl 8, Gold Tone 6, And other instruments and equipment I can't afford.
Last edited by Mack Quinney on 21 Feb 2020 4:57 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Ken Metcalf
From:
San Antonio Texas USA
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Posted 21 Feb 2020 4:53 am
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A Fender Twin has two channels.
TM Twin has an excellent line out.
_________________
MSA 12 String E9th/B6th Universal.
Little Walter PF-89.
Bunch of stomp boxes |
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Mack Quinney
From:
Texas, USA
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Posted 21 Feb 2020 5:00 am
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Ken,
I think I would still be sending everything through only one channel to the board, not sure that will work. Want to split the signal to the board for volume and gain control.
_________________
76 Emmons Push Pull, Williams 600, ShoBud Pro I, MSA Classic, Remington SteelMaster dbl 8, MSA Super Slide dbl 8, Gold Tone 6, And other instruments and equipment I can't afford. |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Brandon Mills
From:
Victoria, TX. USA
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Posted 21 Feb 2020 8:40 am
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| Mack, what DI have you been using for the key currently? The solution may be as simple as just adding the ls2215 to your current setup. XLR from the keys DI to mixer, 1/4†from keys DI to amp, digitech XLR to mixer, 1/4†to amp. |
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Ken Metcalf
From:
San Antonio Texas USA
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Posted 21 Feb 2020 8:44 am
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Sending separate channels for steel and piano I think would be unnecessary because you would adjust volume and tone right on the amp.
You can get one of those amps and try it for 30 days take it back if you don’t like it.
A direct box on one line would split it.
_________________
MSA 12 String E9th/B6th Universal.
Little Walter PF-89.
Bunch of stomp boxes |
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Brandon Mills
From:
Victoria, TX. USA
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Posted 21 Feb 2020 8:44 am
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| Mack, what DI have you been using for the key currently? The solution may be as simple as just adding the ls2215 to your current setup. XLR from the keys DI to mixer, 1/4†from keys DI to amp, digitech XLR to mixer, 1/4†to amp. |
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Mack Quinney
From:
Texas, USA
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Posted 21 Feb 2020 9:03 am
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Brandon,
I went to the same place you did. I have a Behringer Ultra-DI Pro DI800v2 8-channel Active Instrument Direct Box (8 channels) each channel has a unbalanced line out as well as the Mic level to mixer. So I might be set up already. Gonna check it out when I get home.
Thanks for your help.
_________________
76 Emmons Push Pull, Williams 600, ShoBud Pro I, MSA Classic, Remington SteelMaster dbl 8, MSA Super Slide dbl 8, Gold Tone 6, And other instruments and equipment I can't afford. |
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James Holland
From:
Alabama, USA
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Posted 23 Feb 2020 7:24 am
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| b0b wrote: |
| Do you really need to send the keys in stereo to FOH? Do you need stereo keys on stage? |
Yes, if you are running a Leslie simulator. IMO, a stereo Leslie sim, like Yamaha's built in Leslie, is pretty convincing in stereo. If you aren't doing organs, then yea, you don't need stereo.
BUT, I've grown to not like keys only thru a PA, unless its a BIG professional system with a good sound guy. I take a Twin for an instrument amp, run everything including keys thru it, and send a signal to the board. I do miss stereo.. |
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Allan Revich
From:
Victoria, BC
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Posted 23 Feb 2020 12:54 pm
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The piano is going to be the deal breaker and the deal maker. Keyboards have a huge dynamic range and frequency range. Many keyboard amps have two or more channels and inputs “out of the boxâ€, so I’d probably start by looking at keyboard amps. The steel guitar signal can go through whatever pedals work for you on its way to the amp.
I play blues harp and lap steel through a single Fender 57 Deluxe tube amp using an active combiner box and a small pedal board. But the distortion and natural compression of an old design tube amp work to enhance the harmonica and lap steel.i suspect that running a keyboard and/or pedal steel through my setup might have the opposite effect.
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Current Tunings:
6 String | G – G B D G B D
7 String | G6 – e G B D G B D (re-entrant)
https://papadafoe.com/lap-steel-tuning-database |
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Allan Revich
From:
Victoria, BC
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Chris Walke
From:
St Charles, IL
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Posted 24 Feb 2020 8:27 am
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| Roland JC-120? (but it's pretty heavy). |
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Dustin Rigsby
From:
Parts Unknown, Ohio
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Posted 26 Feb 2020 11:02 am
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Peavey Reno 400 with a neo speaker swap weighs 48 pounds and comes with a horn. 210 watts. Can be bought on the used market for next to nothing
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D.S. Rigsby |
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