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Topic: Lap steel with lowering levers? |
b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 14 Feb 2020 8:52 am |
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The two most used pedals on a C6th pedal steel are lowers on the middle E and G strings. A recent post about Deusenberg got me wondering... Are there any lap steel lever mechanisms that lower strings?
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-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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David Ball
From:
North Carolina High Country
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Posted 14 Feb 2020 9:29 am
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I've been working on a prototype pitch changing bridge for lap steel that can raise or lower any string. Right now it can do either one or the other, but if I get this prototype working the way I want it to, it should be able to handle both. It is also a keyless tuner. I'm mainly planning to use it like the old National Triplex Chord Changer rather than using "pedals," but right now, I'm just trying it out with levers.
Dave
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David Knutson
From:
Cowichan Valley, Canada
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Posted 14 Feb 2020 9:57 am
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b0b, the Duesenberg will also lower your string. It requires a "return spring" which is included with it, and a different place to hook the ball end of the string. I keep toying with the multi-bender I have, and occasionally play with lowering a string.
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David K |
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Joe Scherzi
From:
New York, USA
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Posted 14 Feb 2020 10:43 am
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I guess that would make it a "paddle steel".  |
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David Ball
From:
North Carolina High Country
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Posted 14 Feb 2020 11:00 am
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David Knutson
From:
Cowichan Valley, Canada
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Posted 14 Feb 2020 12:20 pm
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Now here I am searching through my string stash for a C6 set so I can set up those E and G lowers on my Multi Bender. I'll NEVER get any work done! 
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David K |
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Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
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Posted 14 Feb 2020 12:41 pm
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i spoke with one of the b bender type makers the other day about this....lowering strings. he said he has a drawing on the board..just needs to tweak and test, so maybe there are some on the way.
i am in the midst of making a lower on a lap i am building. the easiest principle to lower a string would be ala bigsby. a shaft with a string ball pin on it between two pillars, a palm handle, a return spring, and an adjustment screw to tune the lower. since you are only lowering one string at a time, this could be made with smaller parts/springs than a regular bigsby so as to not take up much room or add much weight.
you would need a roller bridge for sure and have all the contraptions for raise/lower behind that with the strings coming from each gadget summing over the roller bridge. that way you could mix/match whatever to raise/lower. |
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Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
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Posted 14 Feb 2020 12:47 pm
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| David Ball wrote: |
| I've been working on a prototype pitch changing bridge for lap steel that can raise or lower any string. |
nice!!! thats a lot of work right there! |
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Glenn Wilde
From:
California, USA
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Posted 14 Feb 2020 2:12 pm
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| I've been giving thought to building one with a Bigsby B5 and string through holes so you can choose which strings you want on the Bigsby. I have some nice old Ash and Redwood so i should probably start gathering parts. It will be a 7 string. |
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Andy DePaule
From:
Saigon, Viet Nam & Springfield, Oregon
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Posted 14 Feb 2020 3:55 pm Nice design Dave
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Hi Dave
That is a really nice design. Your milling work looks very nice.
I've also been working on some ideas for that.
Trying to come up with one that can work by hand levers or pedals via bicycle cables to a floor pedal board.
I'm still in the drawing stages.
Best wishes,
Andy 
[/quote]
_________________
Inlaid Star Guitar 2006 by Mark Giles. SD-10 4+5 in E9th; http://luthiersupply.com/instrument-gallery.html
2017 Mullen SD-10, G2 5&5 Polished Aluminum covering. Custom Build for me. Great Steel.
Clinesmith Joaquin Murphy style Aluminum 8 String Lap Steel Short A6th.
Magnatone Jeweltone Series Lap Steel, Circa 1950? 6 String with F#minor7th Tuning.
1956 Dewey Kendrick D-8 4&3, Restoration Project.
1973 Sho~Bud Green SD-10 4&5 PSG, Restoration Project. |
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Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
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Posted 14 Feb 2020 7:21 pm Re: Nice design Dave
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| Andy DePaule wrote: |
Hi Dave
That is a really nice design. Your milling work looks very nice.
I've also been working on some ideas for that.
Trying to come up with one that can work by hand levers or pedals via bicycle cables to a floor pedal board.
I'm still in the drawing stages.
Best wishes,
Andy
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andy. dont know if you know this set up. MSA did a cable set up for the great nashville guitarist phil baugh. i spoke to him before he passed away. he wanted to have it made again. here is a pic. there are other pics on the net of it.
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Andy DePaule
From:
Saigon, Viet Nam & Springfield, Oregon
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Posted 14 Feb 2020 8:28 pm Bill Hatcher
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Hi Bill,
Yes I've seen similar ones to that. It is kind of like what I have in mind, but I like doing things myself.
I also want mine to work with and without the pedals.
Thanks for your help.
Best wishes,
Andy
_________________
Inlaid Star Guitar 2006 by Mark Giles. SD-10 4+5 in E9th; http://luthiersupply.com/instrument-gallery.html
2017 Mullen SD-10, G2 5&5 Polished Aluminum covering. Custom Build for me. Great Steel.
Clinesmith Joaquin Murphy style Aluminum 8 String Lap Steel Short A6th.
Magnatone Jeweltone Series Lap Steel, Circa 1950? 6 String with F#minor7th Tuning.
1956 Dewey Kendrick D-8 4&3, Restoration Project.
1973 Sho~Bud Green SD-10 4&5 PSG, Restoration Project. |
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David Ball
From:
North Carolina High Country
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Posted 15 Feb 2020 2:48 am
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Thanks for the nice words! Bicycle cables is one of the options I'm looking at too. More than one or two levers on top would get unplayable for me.
Fun stuff to tinker with in retirement anyway. I'm getting closer to getting my shop back up and running after my downsizing move to the Blue Ridge. Hopefully I'll be back to inlay and engraving work soon....
Dave |
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Andy DePaule
From:
Saigon, Viet Nam & Springfield, Oregon
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Posted 15 Feb 2020 4:22 am David Ball, Me too...
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Hi David,
Yes I'm also semi retired now and these projects a well as building instruments again seems a lot more fun than bingo at the old folks club.
Been a long long time since I've used those levers on a lap steel but also think more that two would be a pain.
I got the Winnie Winston book about 74 or 75 maybe, but didn't have a pedal steel so I put a Bigsby palm pedal on an acoustic guitar with a raised nut. That soon proved not much good and I saved up and bought my first used Sho Bud S-10 with 6 pedals and 1 knee lever.
Later sold it and got a D-10 crossover.
Got quite a few projects in various stages of construction, but have not done a thing on them now for 6 months after a serious family set back.
That took the wind out of my sails for some time.
Hope to get back to it all soon.
Good luck with your project.
Best wishes,
Andy
_________________
Inlaid Star Guitar 2006 by Mark Giles. SD-10 4+5 in E9th; http://luthiersupply.com/instrument-gallery.html
2017 Mullen SD-10, G2 5&5 Polished Aluminum covering. Custom Build for me. Great Steel.
Clinesmith Joaquin Murphy style Aluminum 8 String Lap Steel Short A6th.
Magnatone Jeweltone Series Lap Steel, Circa 1950? 6 String with F#minor7th Tuning.
1956 Dewey Kendrick D-8 4&3, Restoration Project.
1973 Sho~Bud Green SD-10 4&5 PSG, Restoration Project. |
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David Ball
From:
North Carolina High Country
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Posted 15 Feb 2020 4:28 am
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And good luck with your projects too. I know that it must be really hard to bounce back at all after your loss--I can't even imagine. I've found that at least the distraction of working in the shop can be helpful for me. But it's harder when you're retired and no longer have the grind of the day job forcing you to think about something else...
Dave |
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Andy DePaule
From:
Saigon, Viet Nam & Springfield, Oregon
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Posted 15 Feb 2020 5:40 am Thanks Dave.
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Thanks Dave,
I'm going to the US for March for visiting and also drive to Texas for the Dallas Steel Guitar Jamboree while there.
I am getting the itch to get back to work on these so maybe when I return from the US.
Best wishes,
Andy
_________________
Inlaid Star Guitar 2006 by Mark Giles. SD-10 4+5 in E9th; http://luthiersupply.com/instrument-gallery.html
2017 Mullen SD-10, G2 5&5 Polished Aluminum covering. Custom Build for me. Great Steel.
Clinesmith Joaquin Murphy style Aluminum 8 String Lap Steel Short A6th.
Magnatone Jeweltone Series Lap Steel, Circa 1950? 6 String with F#minor7th Tuning.
1956 Dewey Kendrick D-8 4&3, Restoration Project.
1973 Sho~Bud Green SD-10 4&5 PSG, Restoration Project. |
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Johnie King
From:
Tennessee, USA
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Posted 15 Feb 2020 11:22 am
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Jackson steel guitar makes cool palm pedals that lowers an raises strings.
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Johnie King
From:
Tennessee, USA
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Posted 15 Feb 2020 11:26 am
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Jackson steel guitar makes cool palm pedals that lowers an raises strings.
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Bengt Erlandsen
From:
Brekstad, NORWAY
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Andy DePaule
From:
Saigon, Viet Nam & Springfield, Oregon
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Posted 15 Feb 2020 4:41 pm Both Nice, but.....
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Both Nice, but limited to a 6 string guitar.
_________________
Inlaid Star Guitar 2006 by Mark Giles. SD-10 4+5 in E9th; http://luthiersupply.com/instrument-gallery.html
2017 Mullen SD-10, G2 5&5 Polished Aluminum covering. Custom Build for me. Great Steel.
Clinesmith Joaquin Murphy style Aluminum 8 String Lap Steel Short A6th.
Magnatone Jeweltone Series Lap Steel, Circa 1950? 6 String with F#minor7th Tuning.
1956 Dewey Kendrick D-8 4&3, Restoration Project.
1973 Sho~Bud Green SD-10 4&5 PSG, Restoration Project. |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 15 Feb 2020 6:24 pm
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| Bengt Erlandsen wrote: |
| Hipshot had palm-lever that could raise or lower depending on which way you installed the string (plus a spring for the lowering return to pitch) |
Sounds like it could raise one string while lowering another. Just think of the possibilities with two levers on an 8-string C6th:
| Tab: |
L1 L2
E +F
C
A
G -F#
E -Eb
C
A
F +F# (or -D)
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_________________
-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
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Posted 15 Feb 2020 6:51 pm Re: Both Nice, but.....
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| Andy DePaule wrote: |
| Both Nice, but limited to a 6 string guitar. |
not at all. as long as you have the strings going over a roller bridge, you can mount anything you want behind it. thats what i am making right now. i am combining the hip shot with two other contraptions. |
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Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
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Posted 15 Feb 2020 6:55 pm
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| Bengt Erlandsen wrote: |
Hipshot had palm-lever that could raise or lower depending on which way you installed the string (plus a spring for the lowering return to pitch)
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are you SURE about the hipshot b bender raising AND lowering?? the palm lever also.
can you explain how you got either the b bender or the palm lever to lower.
the low string is a drop D release, not a palm lower.
thx for the info. |
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Sonny Jenkins
From:
Texas Masonic Retirement Center,,,Arlington Tx
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Posted 15 Feb 2020 8:07 pm
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| Actually about 10-12 years ago I made a device that worked by the exact same principle as the Jackson tailpiece,,,I still have the rough prototype around here somewhere. I got the idea from a bigsby tailpiece,,,a few mods and viola!! |
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Bengt Erlandsen
From:
Brekstad, NORWAY
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Posted 16 Feb 2020 12:08 pm
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The Hipshot palm lever could be set for either raising or lowering. In order for the lowering to working you needed install a small compression spring(came w the kit when I bought it) that would hold the lever in the raised position (normally held in that position by string tension if using the raise)
To get the lowering function, the string would be installed opposite way around the axle and you would press the lever and tune the lowered note with the regular headstock tuner, then release lever and adjust the the fine tuner to stop at the open note since the spring would raise the lever back up.
The compression spring(is not a big one) is possible to install under the palm lever so it pushes it back in the up position. A little tricky to see on the picture in the link but there is a small cavity where the spring will stay in position under that lever mechanism. The finetuner for the lowering function is clearly shown at the rear end of the palm-lever mechanism tho.
The hip-lever did only do raise function tho but it was dead accurate and loads of fun.
https://www.guitarpartsfactory.us/index.php?_route_=10300C-Hipshot-Chrome-G-A-Palm-Lever-B-Bender-for-Telecaster-Guitar
B.Erlandsen |
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