Knee lever question

Bill Donovan · From: Kentucky, USA

Hello all.

I have a steel guitar that I'm trying to figure out. I have a sheet telling me what the knee levers are supposed to do, but a couple of the ones on this one don't. This is on the E9th neck.

First off I don't have a LKL. I have LKV and LKR. Using the LKV seems to make the B string go first to B flat then to C.

My LKR is making my F#'s go to G, RKL makes the E strings E flats and RKR makes D# go to D then to C#.

I have verified all these with a tuner. Now I'm not a steel player. My late father was and this was his guitar. I can remember him talking about it being the E9th neck so I looked up how to tune to standard E9. The beast also has a C6th neck nearest the player.

Is this a different set up than the Emmons, which is what I assumed this was set up to be? I've heard about the Day set up. Is this one possibly set up for that?

This makes watching the videos and trying to do what they tell you difficult at best.

Any information that you could pass my way would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks, Bill D.

Bill Moore · From: Manchester, Michigan

Chris Reesor · From: British Columbia, Canada

Emmons vs. Day setup refers to the arrangement of the three main E9 floor pedals, though this can also affect the preferred arrangement of the E raise and lower knee levers.
I think Bill is probably right on the money about your lack of a LKL lever.
_________________
Excel Superb U12, MIJ Squier tele, modified Deluxe Reverb RI, Cube 80XL, self built acoustics & mandolins

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

Bill its a common question and confusion with NEW players, not to worry.

here's the deal, not all Steels have the same Lever assignments but what they do is very similar, if not exactly the same, but maybe in a different location.

Before you read TAB or instructions know your Instrument and its functions. WRITE IT DOWN You may have to edit the TAB lever locations to match your instrument, the notes are the same.

A pedal, raises 10 and 5

B Pedal Raises 3 and 6

C Pedal raises 4 and 5

IF A + C are swapped, this is the DAY setup, the notes are the same, the pedal positions are swapped

LEVERS, this can be the confusing point, it doesn't matter what the label is, the STRINGS matter the notes are the same . The locations of the levers can be different

Lever X raise 4 and 8 > Very common LKL

Lever XX lowers strings 4 and 8 > very common LKR

Lever xxx Lower 2 > Very common RKR

Lever xxxx Raise 1 >Very common RKL

For ex if a TAB calls for LKR to lower 4 and 8, and your Steel does this on RKL , change the TAB to RKL.

It can be confusing as all Steels are not exactly the same with regard to lever assignment , but what the levers do may very well be exactly the same.

Write it down edit the tabs as necessary

good luck, you are not alone !

tp
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years

CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website

Bill Donovan · From: Kentucky, USA

I kind of feel foolish at this moment if for no other reason than I missed the LKL when I put it together and set it up. IT was folded up close to the cabinet. So this guitar has 6 knees and 8 pedals.

I appreciate the help. I'm working on learning what does what. The paper that I printed out doesn't match this guitar though. All of you are in pretty much agreement that this guitar is set up in a pretty common configuration. I'll go through and write down which lever, pedal does what.

Bill Moore asked me to post a picture of the undercarriage so I'm doing that. If any of you see anything out of the ordinary please let me know.

I've looked at and helped my Dad put this guitar in and out of the case for nearly 40 years and know absolutely nothing about it. Well other than when its in the case it weighs a ton.

**Sorry about the picture quality. I don't take many pictures with this phone. The picture shows up upside down. I don't know how to fix that. If a Mod could rotate it that would be great.

Thanks again, Bill D.

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

Bill, better to take TWO pictures, half at a time. OR maybe 3.

What we can see is that you do have an EMMONS setup by the lay of Pedals A,B and C. ( cross shafts and bellcranks)

hard to tell (for me) what the lever functions are, closer photos will reveal it in a NY minute.

I can't be certain but...

It appears that LKL raises 4+8
LKR raises 1 and lowers 6
RKL lowers 4 + 8
and RKR deals with the 2nd string

This is typical on many Sho Buds

Also, take a closeup photo of the end of the guitar, CHANGER, this reveals ALL pulls, lowers and raises, per string.

best

tp
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years

CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website

Brint Hannay · From: Maryland, USA

Seems to be almost the factory standard configuration of the Sho-Bud Super Pro, which this guitar is, based on the C6 lever for the left knee and the fact that the LKL is mounted square to the body, not at an angle.

I have the original chart of the Super Pro setup *somewhere* Confused

. As I recall the LKR was strings 1 and 7 to G (like other Sho-Bud models) and the LKV was 6th string lower to F#. The other levers same as on this guitar, assuming LKL raises the E's, as it looks like it does. So perhaps your father made just that one change (to the LKV).

Still wondering about that LKV. Looks to me as though there is a second bell crank (the things on the cross shafts that the pull rods attach to) on the cross shaft that nothing is attached to. And, as said above, if that lever really first lowers B to Bb then raises to C, it's definitely in need of adjustment! (I'm guessing knee lever stop should be adjusted for less travel.)

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

I don't think knee lever travel is the problem with the vertical lever. If the travel was too short, it wouldn't make it to Bb. Too long and it would go even lower than Bb. It wouldn't pull that string back in the other direction to a C note. Something has to be pulling the raise finger to raise the string pitch.

On the bellcrank (pull bar), are there 2 rods attached to it? One would be going through the lower finger (for the Bb note), and the other going through the raise finger to tune the SPLIT using this lever and the A pedal to get a C note. A split is where you raise a string with one pedal or lever, and use another one at the same time to lower the string, A pedal raising to C#, and the lever lowering the string a half step to C. Are you activated the A pedal and vertical at the same time when you get that C note? That would be normal. If you are just pressing the vertical and it lowers to Bb, THEN continues to raise the string all the way back up to a C note, you have some real problems. Something is binding and pulling on the raise portion of the finger. If there is nothing pulling on the raise portion of the finger, I would think it would be impossible for the finger to raise the string. Check for rods binding.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting.

Forum Index > Pedal Steel		Next oldest topic :: Next newest topic

All times are GMT - 8 Hours	Jump to: