Please give me your opinion

Bryan Crowley · From: Crescent, Oklahoma

I Received a brand new custom made D-10 a few days ago. When I took it out of the case it had this on the front left side. The builder denies knowing anything about it and
said the guitar was 100% perfect when he shipped it to me. Would you please give me your opinion whether you would believe the builder's story and if you were the buyer that received this guitar what would you do about it. Thank you for your comments.

Bill Moore · From: Manchester, Michigan

I have seen this type of damage caused by the screws that hold the case together. Sometimes, the screws, the ones for the corner protectors, are a little too long and actually go right through the case material and make contact with the guitar. If this is what happened, you will probably be able to feel the tips of the screws on the inside of the case. You can remove the screws and file or grind the a little of the tip off, and replace it. That will stop it from doing more damage. So, it's possible that the guitar was in perfect condition before it went into the case.

Jerry Overstreet · From: Louisville Ky

Well, if you received it in that condition, it's certainly someone's fault...not yours...either the builder or the shipper. If the builder provided the case and it was damaged due to that, it's on him or the case builder as his agent. If it was not properly packed and padded, then it's on the builder or the shipping agent.

Shipping damage should be covered by the shipper's insurance and he would be the one to file the claim.

It seems in poor taste for the builder not to attempt to mitigate your damage on a brand new instrument. Sure wouldn't want to do business with them.

I sure wouldn't want a brand new guitar with that kind of a blemish. No way to repair that. Needs an entire new end plate.

Butch Pytko · From: Orlando, Florida, USA

I would press this builder further that you just are not satisfied with the condition of this "BRAND NEW STEEL GUITAR"! Especially with all the money these new steels cost!

I don't know if I should say it depends on the builder to come through and make things right--maybe it's better to say that all steel guitar companies should feel a responsibility to make the customer happy--it's just GOOD CUSTOMER SERVICE!

Anyway, I had a similar situation with a builder on a brand new D-10. There was a noticeable mark on one end plate, and one of the legs had scratches/marks on it similar to what your picture shows. In my case he took care of it with no problem and I was happy--and if he didn't, I would of raised hell about it!

I hope you can get your damage corrected.

Kevin Fix · From: Michigan, USA

Look at the case for screws coming through to avoid any future damage.

Russell Adkins · From: Louisiana, USA

you paid a lot of money for a new unmarred instrument and that's what you should get delivered to your hand in new condition . you have every right to get what you paid for .,

Andy DePaule · From: Saigon, Viet Nam & Springfield, Oregon

Hi Bryan,
I agree with everything said above.
I'd add that from the photos you put on there the aluminum is not polished very well and still seems to show light scratches.
Most builders would do better than that.

I'd say it's nice of you not to mention names at this point in time. However if it's not made right soon I'd publish some photos that also show off the name of the builder to warn other possible customers off buying from him/them?

Sorry to see that happen to anyone, Good luck negotiating for the repairs at the builders expense.
Andy
_________________
Inlaid Star Guitar 2006 by Mark Giles. SD-10 4+5 in E9th; http://luthiersupply.com/instrument-gallery.html
2017 Mullen SD-10, G2 5&5 Polished Aluminum covering. Custom Build for me. Great Steel.
Clinesmith Joaquin Murphy style Aluminum 8 String Lap Steel Short A6th.
Magnatone Jeweltone Series Lap Steel, Circa 1950? 6 String with F#minor7th Tuning.
1956 Dewey Kendrick D-8 4&3, Restoration Project.
1973 Sho~Bud Green SD-10 4&5 PSG, Restoration Project.

Fred Justice · From: Mesa, Arizona

Its 2:00 AM as I'm reading this thread. I'm the builder in question here.
Bryan is asking you all to form an opinion without knowing all the facts.
Lets start in the beginning, always a good place to start.
It was 6 days after Bryan took delivery of the guitar before I even heard from him.
And boy did I hear from him. His first email was hateful, hurtful, harsh, nasty and plum ugly. (Not) hey we have some damage here on my new guitar we need to discuss.
He insisted I hurt his guitar with a center punch or a drill bit. Then sent it to him that way. All of this conversation is by email, he won't take my calls or return them.
After his first explosive email, I told Bryan if he was that unhappy with the guitar to send it back, I'd pay shipping, and refund his money IN FULL. Nothing doing. he wasn't going to send it back.
The emails got nastier, I have not seen any pictures of any damage at that point.
Then yesterday I ask him to please send me a picture and he did.
I called Bryan and told him I could see the damage. but he wanted me to say I knew it was there, and I did it.
I told him to check the case for a protruding screw, he says there were none.
I then offered to replace the end plate free of any charges, including the shipping.
he still wanted me to say I caused the damage and knew it was there prior to shipping. Now if someone offers to fix something with no questions ask, I think I'd go go it.
He then blew up on me and said, well we'll see what they say about it on the steel guitar forum and hung up. I tried several times to call him with no reply.

Now folks, anyone that knows me will tell you, I would not send a guitar out of this shop knowing it had any damage anywhere.
They always get another cleaning right before they go in the case. I went around this guitar 2 or 3 time wiping off finger prints.
There are 274 Justice guitar players out there that are very happy with their guitar and the way it looks.
I've worked very hard to achieve the level of quality my guitars have, and it just hurts me to read this!
(BTW) Andy, I'm not sure how you can apprise the quality of polishing from a poor cell phone picture?

I don't have any ill feeling toward Bryan, in fact I told him I forgive him for the bad names he called me. God forgives me, and I forgive as well.
_________________
Email: azpedalman@gmail.com
Phone: 480-235-8797

Stu Schulman · From: Ulster Park New Yawk (deceased)

Fred Justice would never send out a damaged guitar,I vouch for Fred's honesty etc.Send the guitar back to him and he'll make it right.
_________________
Steeltronics Z-pickup,Desert Rose S-10 4+5,Desert Rose Keyless S-10 3+5... Mullen G2 S-10 3+5,Telonics 206 pickups,Telonics volume pedal.,Blanton SD -10,Emmons GS_10...Zirctone bar,Bill Groner Bar...any amp that isn't broken.Steel Seat.Com seats...Licking paint chips off of Chinese Toys since 1952.

Andy DePaule · From: Saigon, Viet Nam & Springfield, Oregon

I've never heard of a bad Justice PSG? I've read nothing but good about him and his guitars from everyone who ever bought one right here on the forum. And that is a lot of past customers and a lot of posts.

Went to meet him when I was in Phoenix. He has a real workshop and as far as I could see in a short time looked to be a nice operation.
Almost ordered one from him a couple of years ago, but got the Mullen G2, 5&5 instead.
Even thought about getting a Justice Pro Lite after the Mullen to have a lighter model with less, 3&4 pedals and knees because I liked that design and to help my bad back.

To Fred;
I was going by the poor quality photo that he attached (Reattached below). Had no idea about the "Punch Dent"? but it looks from that photo like light scratches left from not going through enough stages of sanding. However I know you don't do work like that. I now assume perhaps those are cleaning streaks?
I went entirely on what he had said about his dealings with you without knowing who he was talking about.
As stated above "From all I have ever heard about you", I now can not believe he is telling the entire story or giving all the facts. Mad

I got badly burned $$$$ in the past by two another sellers here on the forum in the past.
One of whom got so nasty as to post many false statements about me and the condition of the steel when it left him.
He ever used foul language referring to my dead mother. I sure know how that feels and thats not the kind of man you are.
Best wishes to you.... Very Happy

Last this I'd say is I've had many many good dealings with others on the forum.

_________________
Inlaid Star Guitar 2006 by Mark Giles. SD-10 4+5 in E9th; http://luthiersupply.com/instrument-gallery.html
2017 Mullen SD-10, G2 5&5 Polished Aluminum covering. Custom Build for me. Great Steel.
Clinesmith Joaquin Murphy style Aluminum 8 String Lap Steel Short A6th.
Magnatone Jeweltone Series Lap Steel, Circa 1950? 6 String with F#minor7th Tuning.
1956 Dewey Kendrick D-8 4&3, Restoration Project.
1973 Sho~Bud Green SD-10 4&5 PSG, Restoration Project.

Howard Steinberg · From: St. Petersburg, Florida , USA

A better man than Fred Justice does not exist. Nothing more need be said.
_________________
Justice Pro Lite (4-5), Justice D-10 (8-5)x2 , Quilter Steelaire, Hilton Pedal, BJ's bar.

Ronald Anderson · From: Arizona, USA

I agree he should be upset about the damage and give the builder the opportunity to make it right. I was with Fred when he was doing the last cleaning of the psg. before it went in the case and there was no damage. I was also in his shop and heard his end of every conversation and read every email between them. I can't count how many times Fred said send it back, I will pay the shipping and I will replace the end plate to make this right. I watch almost every day the care that he puts into his guitars before he puts his name on it.

Bruce Bjork · From: Southern Coast of Maine

The fact that Fred spoke up says it all, he stands by his quality work.
_________________
Banjo, Dobro, Guild D-40, Telecaster, Justice Pro Lite 3x5, BOSS Katana 100, Peavey Nashville 112 in a Tommy Huff cabinet, Spark, FreeLoader, Baby Bloomer, Peterson StroboPlus HD, Stage One VP.
"Use the talents you possess; the woods would be very silent indeed if no birds sang but the best"

Jerry Overstreet · From: Louisville Ky

and now...the rest of the story...hmm. I should not have commented before hearing both sides and all the facts.

Frank Freniere · From: The First Coast

There's always at least 2 sides to a story.

Chris Robbins · From: Biggsville Illinois

Fred Justice has been a friend to me for years and I have purchased three guitars from this man and I would defend him not matter what.There is no way he would ship a guitar knowing there was something wrong with it.Why on earth would this guy turn down the offer to send it back free of charge and have it fixed at no cost to him is beyond me.I broke a changer pin putting on new strings on a D 10 a few years ago and it was completely my fault and Fred had to tear it apart to put a new pin in it for me and charged me nothing and paid the shipping to get the guitar back to me.This was my fault and he charged me nothing.I have never met a more honest human being in my life.Yes I would be upset to see a ping on a new guitar but I would never believe Fred would send it to me knowing it was there that not who he is.

Stu Schulman · From: Ulster Park New Yawk (deceased)

You want my opinion?I would like know to why you didn't send the guitar back to Fred like he asked,so instead you decided to bash him on the Steel Guitar Forum.What's up with that?
_________________
Steeltronics Z-pickup,Desert Rose S-10 4+5,Desert Rose Keyless S-10 3+5... Mullen G2 S-10 3+5,Telonics 206 pickups,Telonics volume pedal.,Blanton SD -10,Emmons GS_10...Zirctone bar,Bill Groner Bar...any amp that isn't broken.Steel Seat.Com seats...Licking paint chips off of Chinese Toys since 1952.

Steve Spitz · From: New Orleans, LA, USA

Seems like this could have been handled privately.

Things do happen in shipping a guitar. What more could you ask of a builder who has offered to fix the issue, at his expense ?

I know how much we love our gear. Paying for and waiting for a new steel is a big deal, and something some folks may not get to do often. If there is an issue, it can be a major disappointment, I can understand getting very upset about it, but would hope to not let it get to this point.

The transaction needs to feel fair to the buyer, and the builder.

At what point does the builder stop being responsible for the cosmetic condition of the guitar? Six days ? A week ? A year ?

When I sell something I want the buyer to enjoy buying it as much as they enjoy using it. Im sure Fred feels the same way.

We love our gear, and itâ€™s easy to get worked up about an issue. Getting nasty doesnâ€™t help, and going public would be a last resort. Iâ€™d value the future relationship with the builder. Isnâ€™t that part of why you choose a particular steel guitar ?

Bryan Crowley · From: Crescent, Oklahoma

I do not trust Fred to fix the guitar in a timely fashion, nor do I trust him to
refund my Money. There are no screws protruding inside the case. There was no damage to the box or outside the case. I called Fred Immediately. He did to answer.
I left a message and he called me back 4 days later. Fred specified that I call him when I get the guitar and have him on the phone when I open it. I waited all evening for Fred to call me back. He did not. I then opened it and saw the damage.
I will be more than willing to ship the guitar back for a full refund, but Fred is going to have to repay me my money first before I send him the D-10
I do not trust him to send me the money in a timely fashion if I ship the guitar first.
To all of you who want to beat up on me, go ahead. The only way a screw made that hole is if the guitar was already in the case when he ran the screw in. There is nothing sharp inside the case. Fred may be the greatest guy in the world to some of you, but not to me. I purposely left his name out and made sure nothing was shown in the picture to give away the builder.Thank you for your comments.

Rick Barnhart · From: Arizona, USA

Well, that kinda backfired didnâ€™t it? Iâ€™ve known Fred personally for many years, and I trust him without reservation. Youâ€™re relatively new here, Bryan...I encourage you to take the builder up on his offer, and knock off this smear campaign. I recognized the Justice picture you posted immediately and was confident that this builder especially, would not have lied to you. Youâ€™ve got an excellent guitar...one of the best in the industry, in fact. Fred will make it right, I have no doubt.
_________________
Clinesmith consoles D-8/6 5 pedal, D-8 3 pedal & A25 Frypan, Pettingill Teardrop, & P8 Deluxe.

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

Bryan:

Your case, such as it is, gets progressively weaker.

Fred, while I don't know him personally (only by reputation), is conducting himself with dignity and restraint.
_________________
Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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Larry Behm · From: Mt Angel, Or 97362

Send the guitar back, let Fred fix it or refund your money, he is good for it. Short of that this is a small community here and you are not doing yourself a favor by being stubborn, I am being nice here...
_________________
'70 D10 Black fatback Emmons PP, Hilton VP, BJS bars, Boss GE-7 for Dobro effect, Zoom MS50G, Stereo Steel amp, Telonics 15” speaker.

Phone: 971-219-8533

Michael Sawyer · From: North Carolina, USA

I've never been accused of being real bright...so yall help me out...

I keep reading "case".
In my world,a "case" is what I pack my steel up to haul it to a gig or practice.
I call a wood box an item is shipped in a " shipping crate".

If I can afford a new steel guitar,I can afford a "case" to go inside the " shipping crate".

That is my opinion....

Bill Moore · From: Manchester, Michigan

I have dealt with Fred, I trust him 100%. He has offered to fix the guitar, you should take him up on his offer.

Tommy Minniear · From: Logansport, Indiana

I have known Fred Justice for approximately forty three years. I can promise you that he is a man of his word. If he tells you he will do something you can put it in the bank that it is going to get done.
Fred has offered to refund the money that you spent on your guitar or put new endplates on the guitar that you have now. It sounds to me like Fred has offered to resolve the issue in two different ways. It also appears to me that you keep moving the goal post from one email/post to the next. I say either take one of the mans two offers, of which either is a good solution.
If you refuse to trust Fred then you have put an end to resolving the situation. Bryan that is on you not Fred.

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