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Topic: Extended E9 with 10 strings |
Trevor Marshall
From:
Amesbury, Wiltshire, United Kingdom
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Posted 17 Jan 2020 5:04 pm |
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I've been trying to understand better why the low octave is so different from the middle octave on E9 & the benefits when pedals & levers can fill the interval gaps. I'm wondering if I could extend to additional low G# & E on 10 string E9 by eliminating the F# & D strings (but keeping the top chromatic strings) as attached. This would mostly replicate the middle string licks for the low octave, eliminating the 10 8 6 string spaced grips straddling the D & F# strings whilst still facilitating most chord options & adding more low end capability.
With low F# on C pedal (like Paul Franklin), a two octave diatonic scale is available using B&C pedals open E but open A scale would require P5 with right foot. Many major, mixolydian, minor & pentatonic scales are possible but it would take some relearning. Perhaps it would slow things up too much or loses something too important?
I've already got up to 4 changes per pedal without pedals or levers being too stiff (short 23.25" scale length), but maybe adding one more would be too much? I don't have enough bell cranks to try it at present. Has anybody already tried this or similar? I've read that some forum members have experimented widely with alternative copedents. Would any experienced players who wish to comment advise issues or beneficial improvements please - or suggest I stay with standard E9. Thanks for any feedback.
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Rick Schmidt
From:
Prescott AZ, USA
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Posted 18 Jan 2020 12:45 am
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| At the risk of sounding pedantic, technically I don’t think it can be called an “E9†without the dominant flat 7 D note. I’m sure there’s probably some good music in there though 🙂 |
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Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 18 Jan 2020 1:33 am
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It is "E major w/chromatics", and, yes, with the right changes it covers a wide range of music 
I have played something similar since 1988…
http://www.gunlaug.no/tos/var/s10tt-10.html
… only that I prefer an "out of order" sequence for those extended-low strings. |
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K Maul
From:
Hadley, NY/Hobe Sound, FL
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Posted 18 Jan 2020 4:17 am
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Georg, is this your regular setup or a special experimental one? I have to admit I don't understand why the low strings are out of sequence. The sound of the lower strings have always been an attraction for me which is why I play an 11 string.
I’m not a “theory†type player and don’t think in terms of modes and scales too much. I do think if you can play actual MUSIC and really feel it then whatever works for you is a good thing.
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KEVIN MAUL: Airline, Beard, Clinesmith, Donner, Evans, Excel, Fender, Fluger, GFI, Gibson, Hilton, Ibanez, Justice, K+K, Live Strings, MOYO, National, Oahu, Peterson, Quilter, Rickenbacher, Sho~Bud, Supro, TC, Ultimate, VHT, Williams, X-otic, Yamaha, ZKing. |
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Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 18 Jan 2020 6:18 am
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It is my preferred setup, and if you "overlook" string 7 and 9 it is pretty much a regular E9 setup. That makes switching between my Extended E major PSGs and my E9 PSGs easy, as the most used strings have the same intervals/places – no "finger-twisting" as I switch.
Had to modify nutrollers and changerfingers to get those lower strings leveled under the bar, but that was easy enough once I had decided to keep this "twintuning" setup.
As for "theories" … I could not care less about modes and scales as long as it sounds right to me and isn't "overloaded". I learned music theory as a kid, but after half-a-century most of that is forgotten and/or "automatised".
Mainly I focus on melody lines, and add simple harmonics as, and when, I see fit.
Fun fact is that the two professionals who have looked into my tuning in some depth – Mike Sweeney and Lloyd Green – concluded that it covers all anyone can play on regular E9, and then some. Works for me |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 18 Jan 2020 6:49 am
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| Quote: |
| I've already got up to 4 changes per pedal without pedals or levers being too stiff (short 23.25" scale length), but maybe adding one more would be too much? I don't have enough bell cranks to try it at present. Has anybody already tried this or similar? I've read that some forum members have experimented widely with alternative copedents. Would any experienced players who wish to comment advise issues or beneficial improvements please - or suggest I stay with standard E9. Thanks for any feedback. |
I'm not a great player, but I do have tons of experience!  As for my opinion on what you're doing (or trying to do), I think I'd have to hear you play or know how advanced you are to give a good answer. I'm not an advocate of a player "going off the tracks" until he has attained mastery of the standard setups.
Do you feel you're at that point? |
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Trevor Marshall
From:
Amesbury, Wiltshire, United Kingdom
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Posted 18 Jan 2020 10:09 am
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Rick, yes I agree it’s not E9 any more!
Georg, very interesting - thanks I will study your setup with doubled adjacent strings – maybe a little like sacred steel tuning.
Kevin, you’re right about feeling music over theory as it is emotional primarily, it’s also interesting to explore new developments which may extend capability.
Donny, you make a good point – I’ve been playing about 10 years but still have much to learn on the standard E9 & C6 necks & will enjoy continuing with them. I was just wondering if the low E neck octave could be condensed now that changers are so capable so the bottom octave could be made similar to the top octave with the same grips for both octaves & the range extended.
Thanks everyone for the feedback & appreciate any more. It still seems like something may try especially if I got a second steel. |
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Paul Sutherland
From:
Placerville, California
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Posted 18 Jan 2020 12:42 pm
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Experimentation should always be encouraged on PSG. Having said that, a lot of experimentation already went into what has now become the standard 10 string E9 tuning. The standard set up is pretty darn versatile. As long as you can put it back to original, tinker to your heart's content.
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It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing. |
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Dave Zirbel
From:
Sebastopol, CA USA
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Posted 18 Jan 2020 12:53 pm
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I'm all for experimenting but personally I would miss the low F#, but Red Rhodes (F in his case) and Al Perkins (on his Fender 1000) didn't have them and they were working and sounding great!
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Dave Zirbel-
Sierra S-10 (Built by Ross Shafer),ZB, Fender 400 guitars, various tube and SS amps |
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