Sho-Bud "The Pro-I" Custom 6139 nylon tuners stuck

Randal Birkey · From: Wisconsin, USA

I am the brand new owner of the pedal steel in the title, and a beginner at learning to play it. It is serial number 11703 and I was told by the previous owner it is about a 1972 model.

I am coming at this instrument having played 6-string guitars since 1970, and the bluegrass style Dobro since 1998. I currently play a Beard "Jerry Douglas BlackBeard" model.

I have put on a set of new EPS490 Pro Steel strings and am trying to learn how to tune this instrument. I also have a new StroboPlus HD to assist me.

One thing I can't figure out is why my nylon pedal/lever adjusters are stuck. They will not turn with the tuning tool I received with the instrument. I've studied the mechanisms underneath and it appears that the nylon tuners are attached to the ends of stainless rods that connect to levers underneath. Those rods do not appear to be able to rotate, so I really don't understand how these work. I don't want to break something by applying too much torque.

I've attached photos of my 6139 in hopes that some of you experienced players can shed some light.

This is a great forum, by the way!

Top View

Bottom View

End View

Top end view

Back View

Front View

Randal Birkey · From: Wisconsin, USA

A couple more questions have to do with the legs and the foot pedal bar across the front. The clamps that come at the ends of that bar don't seem to be strong enough to hold the bar at the height I prefer. Is there a secret to getting these to work better?

Also, the clamping mechanism of the legs themselves seems to require an excessive amount of torque to really make the leg length stay put. Any secrets to getting those working better and more practical?

Barry Coker · From: Bagley Alabama, USA

At the top of the page there is a Sticky Post by Jon Light on tuning an all Pull guitar.
It may shed some light on your problem. Ricky Davis is the #1 Sho-Bud expert on the Forum and may chime in here. I guess my first question would be do the Nylon nuts turn back or counter clockwise or are they frozen to the pull rod?

Barry
_________________
Zum-D-10, Webb 614-E, 65 Pro Reverb, Evans RE200, 69 Gibson Birdland, 89 Telecaster EAD Bad!!

Randal Birkey · From: Wisconsin, USA

Barry,

Thank you. I've learned something new already... that I have the "Push-Pull" design. Didn't know that before. I was told that many of the parts on this guitar were upgraded to "aircraft aluminum" for better and longer wear. So, does that sound right? Is this setup not the standard or original setup for this guitar? Is this good or bad?

Second, the nylon extenders seem to not turn either direction (so... "frozen" is the best description)... at least with the amount of torque, I was willing to take a chance with. More torque seemed like it would break the tuners.

Randy

Eric Dahlhoff · From: Point Arena, California

Randal,
The nylon tuners screw onto the metal rods. They should be tight so they don't move on their own. Unscrew one all the way (CCW) & look at it so you understand. It may or may not have a fiber washer, so look for that when you take it off. New nylon tuners are drilled but not tapped, so they go on really tight.

Your ShoBud is an "all-pull" changer, not "push-pull".
That simply means that the rods pull on the changer to either raise or lower the notes.

Looks like a really nice guitar! Very Happy

_________________
"To live outside the law you must be honest." (Bob Dylan)

Craig A Davidson · From: Wisconsin Rapids, Wisconsin USA

Randal where in Wisconsin are you?

Randal Birkey · From: Wisconsin, USA

Eric,

I live in Fitchburg, just south of Madison. I'm a member of SWBMAI and go to the Monday Night Jam at Common Ground... playing Dobro.

This new guitar I bought from a fellow Madisonian!

Randy

Randal Birkey · From: Wisconsin, USA

I've connected the Petersen StroboPlus HD and downloaded the steel guitar sweeteners. Using the SE9 sweetener, it looks like my A Pedal and C Pedal need to be tuned down a hair, and the B Pedal needs to tune up a hair.

There are 2 nylon extensions for the A Pedal. I can't turn either one, either direction. The nylon just twists until it feels like it's going to break. Is there some lubricant or tool needed to break these loose?

Haven't checked the knee levers yet... all of the nylon extenders are stuck.

Ricky Davis · From: Bertram, Texas USA

WEll serial number 11703 was born March 1977.
As if you are trying to fine tune a pedal or knee lever with the nylon tuner at end plate and you can even turn the nylon at all....then there is something wrong and I can name 4 to 5 different things and you being a beginner at any adjustments; you won't understand. You need someone with experience to set it up for you.
Sounds like the nylons are screwed too far onto the pull rod....and if you can't even loosen/counter clockwise the nylon;then you can re-adjust the rod length to NOT have to tighten the nylon tuners on the rods too far...and therefore you would be readjusting all the pull rods...and I HIGHLY suggest you not doing that; you need someone to fix it.

ricky
_________________
Ricky Davis
Email Ricky: sshawaiian2362@gmail.com

Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

I have never had to do this but, maybe try hitting the Nylon endplate tuners with some heat, like a blow-dryer.
They should expand with a little heat, and loosen up the grip on the rod.
I have seen some very tight ones before and you may ruin the tuner, and have to get plastic out of the rod-threads, and get a new Nylon tuner, but you should be able to get them off.

Kevin Fix · From: Michigan, USA

What Ricky said.... You may have to loosen set screw on bell crank lever brass piece and move pull rod toward the key head a little. You will have to back off the nylon tuner some in order to do this. An example would be like having free play in a clutch pedal. Your nylon tuners may be bottomed out. They do turn hard so they don't back off when you are playing. Ricky correct me if I am wrong on direction of pull rod. Been a while since I had to do this.

Kevin Fix · From: Michigan, USA

You have great tuner for the job. 440 would be the 0E9 setting and the 0P9 setting is for the pedals and knee levers. You tune the strings open first with the 0E9 setting then you tune your pedals and knees with the 0P9 setting. By the way that is a nice looking Bud. I have been a Bud guy for almost 40 years.

Bobby D. Jones · From: West Virginia, USA

I would suggest you get 1 of the nylon tuner nuts off of the rod. Check the ends of the rod. Is the end of the rod cut straight and sharp edge smoothed. There is 3 different sizes of holes in the nylon tuning nuts, For 3/32, 7/64 and 1/8 inch rods. If a small hole nut was put on a larger rod may be the problem. The nuts may need drilled out to proper size drill. A little candle wax, paraffin or Bees wax is the best lube for the nuts.

Since your steel is over 40 years old may be the problem. The legs are technically a Microphone stand turned upside down and rubber feet put on them. There is a plastic wedging ring in each leg clutch that may need replaced, So it can be tightened and hold firm. There is rebuild kits available to refit these clutches on the internet.
A quick cure is, Remove the rubber foot, Obtain a dowel rod that will slide into the center tube of the leg and cut it to proper length and then replace the rubber foot. A leg can still be lengthened to make it set even on the floor.

Good Luck on getting your steel working and Happy Steelin.

Ricky Davis · From: Bertram, Texas USA

Yes Kevin; sound correct to me bro.
Ricky
_________________
Ricky Davis
Email Ricky: sshawaiian2362@gmail.com

Bob Carlucci · From: Candor, New York, USA

I have seen this problem on Sho Buds.. Here's what I would do.

First take a SMALL vice Grip, and hold each pull rod with it so it doesn't slip inside the brass pullers. DO NOT leave bite marks on the rods, you just want support so they don't twist, or slip inside the brass.. Right as the rods come out of the changer , maybe an inch from it... Then put a hair dryer on each stuck nylon, a little at a time, you just want to warm them up, NOT melt them. Back the warmed nylons out with the tuning wrench. That should do it.. If not, take the rods out one at a time, nylons and all, and put them in a vice close to the nylon so as not to allow any deflection or twist.. Those rods are a LOT tougher then the nylons and they nylons should budge first.. I have had real tight ones before.. I back them out and put a little silicone or something on them and worked them to loosen the threads just a tad.. You want them firm, NOT locked tight/immovable... bob
_________________
I'm over the hill and hittin'rocks on the way down!

no gear list for me.. you don't have the time......

Randal Birkey · From: Wisconsin, USA

Thanks for all the great suggestions gentlemen! I'll give these a try today and let you know!

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

First things first

-its a beautiful guitar ! Solid as a rock, great tone.

-its a Sho Bud 2-hole puller ( all pull) not a Push Pull design. Whoever told you it was a Push Pull, don' t call them for any advice anymore.

- We have several Sho Bud experts here, Ricky Davis being one of the best

-I have taken several apart down to the changer fingers, same 2-hole puller systems. What I have found on a couple of older Sho Buds was the WRONG NYLON nuts. As mentioned above there are a few different thread sizes running around. Someone, or maybe the previous owner forced a smaller thread size nylon nuts on the rod end.

Someone has to remove them and get the right ones. And they can be a bear to remove, You will probably need a ratchet wrench to do it. You won't hurt the rods but the guitar will have to be totally setup again. You cannot play a guitar where you can't fine tune the pulls . This has to be corrected.

And yes, you may very well have to secure the rods ( as stated above) so they don't turn when removing the nylon nuts. This isn't the first Steel Guitar with this issue and it won't be the last. Those nylon nuts should move with a small amount of finger twisting pressure.
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years

CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website

Marc Jenkins · From: Victoria, British Columbia, Canada

When I bought my Show Pro in the summer, most of the nylon tuning nuts were very difficult to move. Jeff Surrat, the builder, suggested I work them gently in and out with a drill, and lubricate with a tiny amount of white grease. Worked for me.

Randal Birkey · From: Wisconsin, USA

So, I started with the 2 shortest rods by loosening the brass fitting with the set screw and pulling the rod and nylon extender out. I was able to get them loose by clamping the rod in a vise, using a hairdryer on the nylon, and then a channel-lock plier to break them loose, then use the adjuster tool the rest of the way. Now that I understand how these extenders work, it seems I may need to do this on all of them.

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

When you get the "nylon tuner problem" squared away, do whatever you have to do to prevent the tuners or rods from sticking out from the end of the guitar. This will involve either getting shorter nylon tuners,or cutting the ends off the ones you have. When they stick out past the end plate, they can catch on clothing, or possibly cause the rods to get bent when putting the guitar in and out of the case. Winking

Randal Birkey · From: Wisconsin, USA

Thanks for that hint/suggestion as well. I guess I should shorten them while I have them off the rods? Maybe just take 1/4" off of them all.

Does anyone know where to get replacement parts for the leg clamps? There seem to be 2 pieces inside... a full metal ring with a bevel, and a slipt ring made of some kind of hard plastic material (reddish color). I assume these wear out over time. Mine are very difficult to tighten and loosen to hold the leg extended in place.

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

try Michael Yahl at https://www.psgparts.com/

He is always a good source. You can also get the proper nylon nuts here as well.

tp
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years

CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

I don't think Michael has the leg clutch parts. Atlas Sound who makes mic stands has repair kits on their website as I recall.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 55 years and still counting.

Randal Birkey · From: Wisconsin, USA

I was able to shorten all of the nylon extensions and am now fine-tuning the pedals and levers with the Peterson tuner. Thanks for all the great help and suggestions!

Randal Birkey · From: Wisconsin, USA

Here is an exploded view of my leg clutch. Does this look correct? They do not work well at all. I have to tighten them extreme (like with pliers) to get them to hold, then undo them with pliers! Maybe I need replacement parts or maybe I am missing parts? How does mine compare to others out there?

I checked with Atlas and they seem to think that they never made legs for a Sho-Bud, and that I should proceed at my own risk. I'm not sure if I should try any of these options - https://www.atlasied.com/microphone-stand-accessories-replacement-parts

Forum Index > Pedal Steel	Goto page 1, 2 Next	Next oldest topic :: Next newest topic