The Backward Slant

Rick Collins · From: Claremont , CA USA

I know that the basics of slants is taught with no wrist movement. On the backward slant I do sometimes move my wrist. If I keep my index finger arched on top of the bar on a backward slant in the lower register (7th fret to the nut), I find it difficult to get my thumb on the flat end of the bar without rattling strings or loosing control.

I use a 2&7/8" bar on an eight string Fender. Will anyone else admit to sometimes making this movement with the wrist?

Rick

Ray Montee · From: Portland, Oregon (deceased)

Nope, not me!

Rick Aiello · From: Berryville, VA USA

In my opinion reverse slants are harder to learn initially but are easier to execute than forward slants once you have "got it".

I'm certainly in no position to tell someone what to do - but this could be a real bad habit that WILL cause you problems down the road - really limit your playin'.

In order to do them fast and accurate enough you gotta go with the fingers only. The first move is with your thumb, reach back - put it in the "recessed" end and "flick" it out - catching the tip with your middle finger.

Once your brain is trained ... its quite easy to execute. Until then, don't worry about rattles and dropping the bar...just pick it up and do it again.

I highly recommend the 2 3/4" x 3/4" bar. I have recently "re-discovered" my Pearse Cryo-bar but the 2 7/8" still is a nuisance - wish they made one 2 3/4".

Ricky Davis · From: Bertram, Texas USA

quote:

"I'm certainly in no position to tell someone what to do - but this could be a real bad habit that WILL cause you problems down the road - really limit your playin'.

In order to do them fast and accurate enough you gotta go with the fingers only. The first move is with your thumb, reach back - put it in the "recessed" end and "flick" it out - catching the tip with your middle finger.

Once your brain is trained ... its quite easy to execute. Until then, don't worry about rattles and dropping the bar...just pick it up and do it again."

Hey Rick, I beg to differ

You are in a perfect postition to tell someone what to do.....especially when you make awesome instructional comments like that pal. Well explained and I aggree and concur totally with your great advice.
Ricky

[This message was edited by Ricky Davis because it was his first time to quote someone; and maybe he should do that more often..ha]

[This message was edited by Ricky Davis on 07 February 2002 at 10:58 AM.]

Ally · From: Edinburgh, UK

I've always found backwards slants far easier to execute than the forward ones: anything lower than the ninth fret, and pulling off a forward slant requires some pretty nasty contortions.

If a modify my grip on the bar, I can reverse this ... forward slants can be performed with very little wrist movement, but backwards slants become near impossible, bent wrist or not (I simply drop the bar!)

My technique's probably all to hell, but I do get nice, tuneful back slants all up the fretboard... it's great for chord resolutions

Bob Stone · From: Gainesville, FL, USA

I agree with Rick Aiello 100%. In addition to playing Hawaiian style electric steel with a bullet bar, about a year ago I began to play the Dobro with a Scheerhorn bar. At first I hated the Scheerhorn, but eventually caught on to the pull-off and hammer-on techniques that work so well on that instrument. I'm able to switch back and forth from the Scheerhorn to the bullet and can do forward and reverse slants on both. It was just a matter of putting the practice time.

Like Jerry Byrd says, the harder I work, the luckier I get.

Happy steeling,

Bob

Rick Aiello · From: Berryville, VA USA

Saw my response in quotes and thought I was in trouble again....

Ricky Davis · From: Bertram, Texas USA

No Rick; you done good my brother....keep it up.
Ricky

HOWaiian · Posted 7 Feb 2002 6:40 pm

uhhh...yer not s'posed to move yer wrist? oy....

Rick Collins · From: Claremont , CA USA

In particular, the position I'm refering to is on C6th,___strings 1,2,&3. Fifth fret, first string; fourth fret, second string; third fret, third string.

In this position the slant is about a 25 degree angle. This is difficult without slightly turning my wrist. If I try to fake the chord by not making the exact, on fret movement the richness of the sound is just not there.

Just seeking information.

Thanks, Rick

Rick Aiello · From: Berryville, VA USA

What you just described is a FORWARD slant. This one in fact is one of the most difficult slants because of the strings and frets involved.

Once again the thumb makes the first move by pushing the end of the bar under your arched fingers. For these slants your hand must "turn the corner" as JB calls it.... a slight turning out of the hand to keep the bar from falling between the first two strings. Your wrist is "moving" but its only cause your hand is attached ... still not a wrist movement. This also provides a better view of the lower frets to aid in accurate positioning.

Sorry about the initial confusion...just got your terms "Reversed"

Rick Collins · From: Claremont , CA USA

Rick, thanks for turning me around!

Rick

Al Marcus · From: Cedar Springs,MI USA (deceased)

Back in the late 30's and early 40's you BETTER know your backward slants AND forward slants, on a 6 string lap steel........al

Steve Feldman · From: Central MA USA

Rick Collins · From: Claremont , CA USA

Slants are very necessary on nonpedal steel guitar no matter which tuning you are playing. I've learned to never fake these positions. It has made a huge difference in my playing since I've taken this advice seriously.

Rick

Dave Horch · From: Frederick, Maryland, USA

Steve - that's the way I learned it too.

Michael Johnstone · From: Sylmar,Ca. USA

I don't know if it's right or wrong - but the way I set up a reverse slant is to bear down on the back of the bar - slightly to the left of center - with the fleshy pad where my index finger joins the hand.This pops the back end of the bar out to the right and I catch it w/my thumb.That way,I don't have to reach back w/my thumb to fetch the end of the bar - it comes to me.It's also MUCH faster that way.When the slant is fully executed,I've got my middle finger on the bar nose,thumb on the end and my index finger is crooked over the bar and bearing down a bit so the the bar never gets away from me.To resolve the slant,I just tuck the back end into line with my thumb as the nose end re-situates itself between my middle and index fingers.This of course,is with a round bar.I have a couple Dobro bars and they're good for tip-o-the-bar open string work,but you can't slant them the way I described - or get rolling vibrato - they just fall over on their side - so they're pretty useless in my opinion. -MJ-

Rick Aiello · From: Berryville, VA USA

MJ, what size bar do you use? Sounds like your usin' a big bar from your description and the rollin' vibrato comment.

I can't use the "reach back with the thumb" technique on anything longer than 2 7/8" and that length is even bothersome to ME.... can't do it with near the speed or accuracy as I can with a 2 3/4".

Michael Johnstone · From: Sylmar,Ca. USA

For 6 or 8 string lap and dobro I use a regular 7/8" x 3 1/4" bar.That's about as small and light as I can go and maintain any kind of tone or dexterity.On my 12 string pedal steel,I normally use a 1" x 4" bar and so the 7/8" x 3 1/4" bar feels like a pencil to me. Like I said,I've got a dobro bar - the kind with the finger grooves and rounded turned up tip,but it sounds kinda doinky and all you can do with one of those is scrape it back and forth for vibrato.And especially on acoustic dobro where you're fighting a very high mechanical noise-to-musical note ratio,I prefer the cleaner tone,rolling vibrato and slantability that a round bar allows. -MJ-

Rick Aiello · From: Berryville, VA USA

WOW - 1" x 4" - add "Bar Envy" to the list of my psychoses.

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