Double 8. Looking for tuning advice/recommendations

Mark McCornack · From: California, USA

Greetings All. I have double neck 8-string lap steel that I either need to start playing or sell. It's a Rickenbacker DC-16 (to the best of my knowledge) cast aluminum body 2x8, with a 22.5" scale length.

There seem to be a lot of tuning options bantered about for these, enough to leave the uninitiated bewildered, so I thought I'd solicit help on the forum from the non-pedal group for recommendations. My apologies in advance as I know this horse has surely been well beaten by others.
My interests musically will be primarily Western Swing, Jazz, & perhaps some Hawaiian. I've been playing E9 pedal steel for many years and have a nodding acquaintance with the Dobro, so I won't be starting from scratch from a mechanics or musical standpoint.

Given that, what would you do were you in my position? Which tunings come to mind, and on which neck? Are there particular stock manufactures string sets you might also recommend?

Side note: Is Rickenbacker DC-16 the correct model? anybody guess the vintage based on this picture?

Cheers and Happy New Year,
Mark Razz

HowardR · From: N.Y.C.-Fire Island-Asheville

DC-16 is correct......that model was made between 1950-53...â€¦that guitar looks like a beauty.....

For the music that you listed, I believe the general consensus will be C6 and E13.....

Mark McCornack · From: California, USA

Thanks Howard!
With that combo, is there any consensus as to which tuning goes with which neck? Would C6 typically be the closest, or the furthest from the player? Question

Nic Neufeld · From: Kansas City, Missouri

I don't know if there is much of a consensus either way...I tend to put my most played one closer. For your listed music you could also consider C13 (E C A G E C Bb C) and A6. The former is a very versatile tuning for both Jazz and Hawaiian and the latter is very similar to C6 but was a pretty common tuning with Western Swing players. Not really a right or wrong answer.

That sure is a pretty one!
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Jesse Valdez · From: Fiddletown, California, USA

Hey Mark, it was good meeting you the other night! After thinking on it some, I think the tuning you might enjoy best is the typical C6 with the reentrant pedal steel D on the top. D-E-C-A-G-E-C-A, you can then retune the Câ€™s to C# and G to F# for an A6 with an reentrant 11. Mike Aldridge used this C6 tuning on an album or two. If you prefer to have the typical E on top, many players put a bass string as the 8th such as a .68 or .70, Low C or A, which allows you to have the Herb Remington A6 Bass A, Jules Ah See C6 Bass C, or Kayton Roberts C6+A7 (E-C-A-G-E-C#-A-Bass A) variations, all retuning variations with the same string set. E13 is another common choice if youâ€™ll be doing Western and Country. Leon McAuliffeâ€™s E13 is very popular and there are a lot of players who use it E-C#-B-G#-F#-D-B#-E, I prefer Noel Boggs or Kaytonâ€™s chord tunings which are also available and easy to find. I wish you luck with whatever you decide to pursue!
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John Herb · From: West Virginia, USA

Definitely agree with Jesse you can't go wrong with the Kayton Roberts tuning.

Mark McCornack · From: California, USA

Thanks to all for this great advice. Iâ€™ve also discovered John Elyâ€™s site (hawaiiansteel.com) so I think Iâ€™ve plenty to go on.
Jesse, nice meeting you too the other night. There was some great music there and it was great fun playing. I think Iâ€™ll give your tuning recommendation a try. Mr. Green

Twayn Williams · From: Portland, OR

I use E13 and B6 on my Stringmaster. See also http://cindycashdollar.com/tunings/

E13 is my main tuning and is what PSG E9 developed from. The B6 is the same as C6, just a 1/2 step down.
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Tim Whitlock · From: Colorado, USA

Sorry to veer off a bit here but I have a question about your guitar. I love Rickenbackers and have been considering acquiring the same model. Do you find it sits easily on your lap or is it a bit unwieldy?

I also have a Ricky 208 D8 console. I use C6 on the lower neck and E13 on the upper. I usually will play the head and maybe one solo on C6 and then jump over to E13 for a wilder, jazzier solo and then back to C6.

A lot of players prefer their tunings to be related musically, such as C6/F9 or A6/E13 where the second neck is a 4th or 5th above the first neck. It makes it easier if you are hopping the necks in mid-song.

Mark McCornack · From: California, USA

Hi Tim,
I am really more of an E9 pedal steel guy and a total noob st this lap steel, Iâ€™m just now getting this old Rickenbacker up and running and I havenâ€™t put in any real play time yet on this thing. It is a however a heavy bugger weighing in at 16 pounds, so my suspicion is it probably wouldnâ€™t be all that great to Play 3 or 4 sets with it on your lap. Iâ€™ve seen some clever stands folks have rigged up for these. If I keep this rig, Iâ€™ll likeky build myself a stand.
Thanks too for your input on the tuning.
Mark. Mr. Green

D Schubert · From: Columbia, MO, USA

Not that it's the only way, but I tune the front neck to C13 with a high G. And the back neck to Leon McCaullife E13. I'm discovering tons of faux-pedal-steel licks buried in the E13 tuning.

Fred · From: Amesbury, MA

Tim and Mark
I have the older D-16 model. Itâ€™s the same shape and about 15 lbs. Itâ€™s weight is uncomfortable and the inside neck ends up too close to play. It also feels like itâ€™s about to tip over. Iâ€™m 5â€™6â€ so my lap is small. A taller person might find it more comfortable.

Fred

Tim Whitlock · From: Colorado, USA

Jeremy DeHart · From: North Carolina, USA

So in my estimation your top 4 strings are where you are gonna put most of your effort unless you're doing a lot of strums. Of course all of the strings are important depending on the song, but that's just it really, it all depends on if you're playing single string type stuff or chord comping etc. If you want the widest variety of different tunings within easy re-tune distance you just have to find similar tunings that end with the same set of high strings. If you look at A6 it ends with F#-A-C#-E, whereas B11 also end with F#-A-C#-E. And of course you can quickly achieve an High bass A tuning in this method as well. Meaning with a few tuning key changes you have all 3 tunings easily within reach that give very different musical flavor. Another tuning like this is E13 which has multiple flavors and can easily become C#m. There are historical evolutions within the tuning paradigms of steel guitar and they all make sense when you see them chronologically. I highly recommend Guy Cundell's papers on this subject. People really don't like to retune these days, however Jerry Byrd was a big endorser of this approach with steel guitar as you can see from his live performances. I think that retuning so that all 8 strings are in a particular tuning can get excessive, but again you've got to think of the entire composition and exactly what tunings you need throughout. There are some songs where you don't really leave the top 3 strings, and others you play full chords throughout all 8 strings. I would say you should gear your tunings based on these factors.

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