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Topic: 1 - 2 - 5 - 1 Progression |
Dustin Kleingartner
From:
Saint Paul MN, USA
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Posted 31 Dec 2019 10:44 am |
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This may belong in tabs, I don't know...
I'm wondering if you guys have any thoughts or tricks for this common country progression on steel (1-2-5-1)
For some reason I never feel very confident about what I play over this... or at least I'm stuck in a rut.
So if anyone has any thoughts, please share!
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Proud parent of a good dog. |
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Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
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Posted 31 Dec 2019 12:57 pm
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By “tricksâ€, what do you mean?
Try something simple, like only using 3 notes for a melody across the whole progression. Key of G use G-A-B, or E-G-A, or E-F#-G, or F#-G-A, in whatever order the notes sound good to you. Then build appropriate harmonies or full chords around them if you want. Play in time, and start without syncopating.
In G, your progression is G-A-D-G. The C# in the A chord is the only non-diatonic note in that progression. A7 and C chords share the notes E and G. Scalewise, C major pentatonic is A minor pentatonic. So other than the C# in the A chord, you can play just about anything on 1-2-5-1 that you would do on 1-4-5-1. You could even go a little outside and borrow the 7th of a 4 chord (Bb for a C chord) and apply it as a b9 of the A, which makes it more diminished-sounding.
As far as mechanical tricks, that depends on your copedent. To slide or to bend, that is the question. |
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Dustin Kleingartner
From:
Saint Paul MN, USA
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Posted 31 Dec 2019 2:07 pm
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Thanks Fred!
I don't know what I'm looking for really, just some licks to steal I guess. Maybe something to play over it when it's in a solo.
I'm working with standard Emmons E9
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Proud parent of a good dog. |
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Daniel Morris
From:
Westlake, Ohio, USA
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Posted 31 Dec 2019 3:16 pm
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Dustin, do you mean all major chords?
One of the most common progressions would be ii - V - I.
So in G, Am, D(7), G.
Do you play C6? If so, there's a lot of possibilities (I'm not an expert, but I have learned a few things).
Just want to be clear on what it is you're seeking.
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1979 MSA U12 Pedal Steel
1982 Kline U12 Pedal steel
2019 Sierra U12 Pedal Steel
2011 Bear Creek MK Weissenborn
Milkman 40W Mini amp w/Telonics 15" speaker.
Dr. Z Surgical Steel w/TT 15" speaker.
Frenzel MB-50 head.
Spaceman, Empress, Eventide, Pigtronix. |
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Dustin Kleingartner
From:
Saint Paul MN, USA
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Posted 31 Dec 2019 5:15 pm
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I'm talking all major. The minor 2 I can usually work with. I get hung up on the major 2 since it isn't in the regular old major scale.
An example would be the second line in "Don't Come Home a-Drinkin', With Lovin' on Your Mind", there's countless other examples throughout classic country.
I don't really know what I'm looking for. This is just a very distinct progression that's unique to country music (at least that's the only place I've heard it, maybe folk). I guess I was just wondering if others had any thoughts on this progression, since it's kind of a country trademark.
No C6 for me
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Proud parent of a good dog. |
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Justin Emmert
From:
Greensboro, NC
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Posted 1 Jan 2020 8:03 am
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A 1-2-5-1 progression would be in key of (C)- C, Dm, G, C. In the Nashville Number system, the 2 is always a minor. So I'm confused where you are coming up with a 2 major, unless it's written into the chart as an an accidental.
The Loretta Lynn of the Don't Come Home Drinking song plays a D7. So that may be what you are hearing?
C G7 C
Well you thought I'd be waitin' up when you came home last night
D7 G7
You'd been out with all the boys and you ended up half tight |
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Sam Inglis
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 1 Jan 2020 8:41 am
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| I don't have any advice to offer on specific licks, but harmonically speaking, the D7 in that song would usually be thought of as the 'dominant of the dominant'. In other words, you'd treat it as the 5th of the G chord that follows, so try playing a 5-1 lick in G rather than thinking in C. |
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Jack Hanson
From:
San Luis Valley, USA
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Posted 1 Jan 2020 9:58 am
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| Pull out your Django/Steph CD and play along with Limehouse Blues a few dozen times. It may not be "country," but it's all there. |
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Glenn Demichele
From:
(20mi N of) Chicago Illinois, USA
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Posted 1 Jan 2020 5:25 pm
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I assume You mean 1 to 2 major to 57 to 1.
My favorite these days is the Tom Brumley together again solo.
I'm surprised nobody chimed in with this yet. That solo part happens when he goes from 4 to 5, but thats just 1 to 2 in a different key.
Say you're in G: chords are G A D7 G.
Strings 3 & 5
G: 3 & 5 fret 3
Transition : 3 & 5A, then 3 & 5 fret 3
A: 3B & 5 fret 2
D7: 3 & 5 fret 1 (optional F lever if you want to play string 4)
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Franklin D10 8&5, Excel D10 8&5. Both amazing guitars! Homemade buffer/overdrive with adjustable 700Hz "Fender" scoop., Moyo pedal, GT-001 effects, 2x TDA7294 80W class AB amps, or 2x BAM200 for stereo. TT12 and BW1501 each in its own closed back wedge. Also NV400 etc. etc... |
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Dustin Kleingartner
From:
Saint Paul MN, USA
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Posted 2 Jan 2020 6:36 am
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Thanks a lot guys! This has definitely given me some differet ways to think about this that I hadn't considered before.
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Proud parent of a good dog. |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 3 Jan 2020 8:29 am
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Go listen to several of the videos you can find on YouTube of steel players playing A Way to Survive.
If you're playing the I in the AB pedal position, you go to the II chord by dropping the Es. You now have a II9 chord.
If you have Alexa, say "Alexa, play Dale Watson." He writes a LOT of stuff with the major II going to V, and Don Pawluk or Ricky Davis have a bunch of different ways of playing it.
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Jim Pitman
From:
Waterbury Ctr. VT 05677 USA
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Posted 3 Jan 2020 12:36 pm
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As far as improvising runs, you can almost consider the 2maj a whole step key change.
Am I mistaken here? I don't think it's a standard to interpret 2 as a minor in NNS. Like any other chord - number with nothing following it is a major in my experience. |
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Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
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Posted 3 Jan 2020 7:39 pm
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| Jim Pitman wrote: |
As far as improvising runs, you can almost consider the 2maj a whole step key change.
Am I mistaken here? I don't think it's a standard to interpret 2 as a minor in NNS. Like any other chord - number with nothing following it is a major in my experience. |
I would not consider it a whole step key change. Yes, II is non-diatonic, but it is almost always considered a dom7 in this context (5th of the 5th, as previously suggested). With that in mind, there is only one note in that chord and its associated mixolydian scale that is not diatonic to the key of the tonic chord (as previously suggested), and you don't even have to play that non-diatonic note to get a coherent melody out of the remaining chord and scale tones in the I/II7/V/I progression (as previously sug.....ahh cut it with the parenthetical patronization already, willya?). Thinking of the II chord as a key change adds an unnecessary layer of complexity to the process of improvising over this progression, imho. |
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