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Topic: Direct box instead of micing the amp to PA |
Len Amaral
From:
Rehoboth,MA 02769
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Posted 26 Dec 2019 2:37 pm |
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Acoustic players and bass players use a direct box to the PA instead of micing an amp. Wonder how a direct box would respond if you placed it after your effects pedals to input of the direct box, then direct box XLR to PA input of the mixer/amp .Then the 1/4 inch output of the direct box to your amp.
Thoughts?
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I survived the sixties! |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 26 Dec 2019 2:45 pm
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As long as you don't mind setting all of your general EQ settings with the PA rather than an amp.
Now and then I use the Baggs Venue for Electric Instruments, it has 4 band para eq , xlr and 1/4 out. Its basically a preamp. there is now right or wrong only do you like it or not ! 
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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George Kimery
From:
Limestone, TN, USA
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Posted 28 Dec 2019 10:25 am Direct box instead of micing amp to PA
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| Convience is one thing, but I have spent a lot of trial and error and money over many years trying to find an amp that gives me the sound I want, including speaker selection. This is how I get "my sound." I would not want to lose it by using anything that bypasses or eliminates my gear setup |
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Justin Griffith
From:
Taylor, Texas, USA
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Posted 28 Dec 2019 12:36 pm Re: Direct box instead of micing amp to PA
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| George Kimery wrote: |
| Convience is one thing, but I have spent a lot of trial and error and money over many years trying to find an amp that gives me the sound I want, including speaker selection. This is how I get "my sound." I would not want to lose it by using anything that bypasses or eliminates my gear setup |
Exactly. Without the amp you loose it all. It’s just another steel guitar at that point.
_________________
Emmons/Sho~Bud/Blanton, Fender/Peavey.
Telonics pedal |
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Len Amaral
From:
Rehoboth,MA 02769
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Posted 28 Dec 2019 1:10 pm
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I appreciate the comments and I agree that a direct box bypasses all the components involved to get your tone.
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I survived the sixties! |
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Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
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Posted 28 Dec 2019 1:38 pm
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| Acoustic players often have preamps built into the guitar. Without that and a good DI, they would all suffer for tone. |
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Greg Lambert
From:
Illinois, USA
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Posted 28 Dec 2019 4:22 pm
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| I have a line out on my amp that I used to got to PA when needed. this delivers the sound and effects straight to the pa. |
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Jeff Highland
From:
New South Wales, Australia
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Posted 28 Dec 2019 4:42 pm
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IMHO Using a basic direct box to PA gives a sterile unpleasant sound
But spend just a little more and you can have a preamp/DI that will give you much of the "AMP" sound
I am currently using a pair of Behringer GDI21 after my effects in front of a headphone amp. They are very cheap but suit my current needs (to run from a stereo delay reverb pedal), you can obviously go for much more expensive units but even a basic unit like this is better than a passive DI. |
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Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
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Posted 28 Dec 2019 7:20 pm
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| Tony Prior wrote: |
| As long as you don't mind setting all of your general EQ settings with the PA rather than an amp. |
If I understand Len’s hypothetical setup, the signal from his effects chain is being sent to both an onstage amp and the PA, via separate outs from a direct box.
The EQ unit in the effects chain could be used to serve the PA signal primarily, and the amp tone controls could compensate for whatever resultant shortcomings might befall the sound coming from the amp because of the EQ box settings.
It looks like a different kind of headache compared with simple mic’ing (or getting an amp with a built-in direct out) and I’m not sure it solves any problems that make it worthwhile. I also agree with having some kind of preamp between the guitar and a direct line to the PA. But you never know until you try it, I suppose. |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 28 Dec 2019 9:32 pm
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I always think of the speaker as an important part of my instrument's tone. A direct box doesn't capture that; a microphone does.
That said, I've heard recordings off the board and my steel tone is nothing like what I'm hearing on stage, even with an SM-57 on my speaker. I doubt that the sound man is messing with my tone (why would he?). Since it's a crap shoot anyway, using a direct box for convenience could negate the need for an amp and make the job a bit easier.
If you're carrying an amp anyway, why not mic it?
_________________
-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 31 Dec 2019 7:31 am
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| Using just the EQ available on a PA is seriously limiting to your tone palette, and I wouldn't even consider playing live without a combo amp. I don't think anything sounds as good as a band having separate amps for all the instruments. |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 1 Jan 2020 12:48 pm
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There are some new direct boxes, amp modelers and everything in between that sound amazing and work great.
Quilter 45 series
Milkman. The amp
Sarno. V8
Kemper
There are way more available. Just think about exactly what you need and somebody is building it. I still prefer an amp with speakers but with most of the money gigs using in ears a full amp is not needed.
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Bob |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 1 Jan 2020 3:24 pm
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| Bob Hoffnar wrote: |
| I still prefer an amp with speakers but with most of the money gigs using in ears a full amp is not needed. |
They're really going overboard with the in ear monitors these days. I saw a guy singing on SNL with just two musicians, piano and violin. He was standing in between them and all 3 had those gadgets in their ears. I mean, voice and two acoustic instruments - WHY? 
Marty Robbins and Jerry Byrd didn't need no stinkin' monitors.
_________________
-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Bill Cunningham
From:
Atlanta, Ga. USA
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Posted 1 Jan 2020 5:11 pm
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| b0b wrote: |
| Bob Hoffnar wrote: |
| I still prefer an amp with speakers but with most of the money gigs using in ears a full amp is not needed. |
They're really going overboard with the in ear monitors these days. I saw a guy singing on SNL with just two musicians, piano and violin. He was standing in between them and all 3 had those gadgets in their ears. I mean, voice and two acoustic instruments - WHY?
Marty Robbins and Jerry Byrd didn't need no stinkin' monitors. |
Maybe they were lip syncing to a track?
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Bill Cunningham
Atlanta, GA |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 1 Jan 2020 5:17 pm
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| b0b wrote: |
| Bob Hoffnar wrote: |
| I still prefer an amp with speakers but with most of the money gigs using in ears a full amp is not needed. |
They're really going overboard with the in ear monitors these days. I saw a guy singing on SNL with just two musicians, piano and violin. He was standing in between them and all 3 had those gadgets in their ears. I mean, voice and two acoustic instruments - WHY?
Marty Robbins and Jerry Byrd didn't need no stinkin' monitors. |
If that was there standard set up it would mean they would be able to completely control what they hear and send to the FOH. Things can get very screwed up very fast . Doing what you know makes sense to me. The in ears thing is pretty cool once you dial it in. Eliminates a multitude of problems. I don't really like it but it sure does work.
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Bob |
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Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
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Posted 1 Jan 2020 9:32 pm
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I’m sure both Marty Robbins and Jerry Byrd performed with monitors on their stage, and were probably happy to have them. Not that they couldn’t make do without them, of course.... But the point b0b makes deserves some consideration as it regards the OP. An IEM would certainly tell the story of your no-preamp steel guitar sound.
As far as the aforementioned SNL performance, maybe the IEM is the only system the studio (or the performer, as Bob H. mentions) uses now, and most people would not prefer to go onstage in front of a gazillion people on TV without a monitor system. |
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Paul Sutherland
From:
Placerville, California
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Posted 1 Jan 2020 10:36 pm
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The Beatles played stadiums with no monitors. I really don't know how they did it, but they did.
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It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing. |
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Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
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Posted 1 Jan 2020 10:45 pm
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| They couldn’t hear a darn thing they were playing, Paul. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 2 Jan 2020 4:12 pm
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| b0b wrote: |
They're really going overboard with the in ear monitors these days. I saw a guy singing on SNL with just two musicians, piano and violin. He was standing in between them and all 3 had those gadgets in their ears. I mean, voice and two acoustic instruments - WHY?
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I dunno? Go figure. I've also seen bands play in a place that seats around 50-75 people...and they mike the drums!!! 
(The only time anyone ever asked a drummer to play louder was on a Civil War battlefield.)  |
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Charley Paul
From:
California, USA
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Posted 2 Jan 2020 4:12 pm
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I’m a big believer in letting the stage monitors do the heavy lifting these days. I’d much rather have a small amp that I can push a bit, and set the amp volume relatively low so that the stage monitors carry the mix.
One great way to accomplish this is with a Quilter amp. They all have built in DI’s on the back. No mic needed.
Alternatively, you could use something like the Two Notes CAB. This can be used in place of an amp, or between your amp and speaker, and sends a speaker simulated DI to the front of house. You could have a a Princeton Reverb on stage as your amp, set the volume low.....and then have the Two Notes CAB send an IR of a JBL loaded Twin to the front of house. On stage you’d hear your Princeton, and in the monitors the Twin sound. They work great, I used to have the old version. This new one appears to have a better design.
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/TorpedoCABM--two-notes-torpedo-cab-m-speaker-simulator-pedal |
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Carl Mesrobian
From:
Salem, Massachusetts, USA
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Posted 12 Jan 2020 3:59 pm
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Len
I played all summer one year using a '64 Princeton reverb (with Altec 425 speaker) mic'ed to the monitors and front of house. Because of the "thunderstorming" from the rattling reverb pan, I left my reverb off and let the engineer add it in.
Sweet tone on stage , volume set to 3, treble and bass where iI liked it, and hopefully the sound engineer got it right to the audience.
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--carl
"The better it gets, the fewer of us know it." Ray Brown |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 13 Jan 2020 12:57 am
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| Fred Treece wrote: |
| They couldn’t hear a darn thing they were playing, Paul. |
The girls were louder than the amps !
then came ...
drum roll please...
VOX Ac100's which was later termed "Super Beatles"
and the entire world changed !
All because of them girls screaming !
TRUE STORY
a few of us band mates ( teens) went to see the very first Rolling Stones Concert in NY City, we still don't know what the 1st two songs were !
Small theater PA, small amps, a few thousand screaming kids !
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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Ken Metcalf
From:
San Antonio Texas USA
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Posted 15 Jan 2020 7:21 am
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This Q strip is good
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MSA 12 String E9th/B6th Universal.
Little Walter PF-89.
Bunch of stomp boxes |
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David Nugent
From:
Gum Spring, Va.
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Posted 15 Jan 2020 8:28 am
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| Len..Group that I am currently working with insists on no amps onstage (result of dealing with one too many overzealous lead guitarists!). Boss recently introduced an acoustic pre amp pedal the 'AD-2' which appears to have solved the tone problem at least for me. Very simple to dial in and has a 'Direct Out' feature.. Signal chain now consists of; guitar-vp-Black Box-Hilton delay-AD-2 (with all settings on the mixing board run flat). Tested this set up for the first time last Saturday and was well pleased with the result. Idea came to me after reading several members comment on preferring to use the 'Acoustic' setting on their Boss Katana amps. |
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Len Amaral
From:
Rehoboth,MA 02769
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Posted 15 Jan 2020 5:49 pm
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Hi Dave, sounds like a good setup you have. I have been sitting in playing bass with an R&B group and they use in ear monitors and mic everything except the bass. I have a Mesa Boogie Subway bass head and they tap into the XLR direct out to the board.
That’s why it got me to thinking about a direct box with the pedal steel.
_________________
I survived the sixties! |
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