Steel Won't Stay in Tune.....I Need Help !

Alan Sim · From: Lancashire, U.K.

Hi Guys

New strings on Friday,tunung fine,come Saturday lunch time,and from then on,I can't get the A/B Pedals to stay in tune,and some of the Pedal tuning keys on the end of the guitar are very tight and hard to turn.

When I can get it tuned,I play one tune,and the pedals are out again.

The only adjustment I have made is to raise the A/B Pedals using the Pedal rod adjuster.

Is this a sign that the strings need changing already,or could it be some mechanical issue?

It's a WBS Student,and I have only been playing 9 weeks,this is driving me nut's,I spend more time tuning than playing,can someone please help.

Thanks

Alan

Micky Byrne · From: United Kingdom (deceased)

Hi Alan, I doubt it is anything to do with your strings.It seems to me that something on the Changer end needs to be adjusted.There are quite a few Guys in England that can sort your problems out, but from your location in Lancashire, the nearest person who can sort you out is Ronnie Bennett in Liverpool, his number is 01516 084562 Good luck mate.

Micky Byrne, Carter universal, soon to be ressurected Sho-Bud universal,Peavey Nashville 400, Evans Fet 500 LV amps www.mickybyrne.com

Micky Byrne · From: United Kingdom (deceased)

Me again Alan, Just a thought, Make sure when you have put your new strings on that you have given them a good stretch, then retuned,the ommision of this process will give problems.

Micky Byrne

Jim Sliff · From: Lawndale California, USA

"some of the Pedal tuning keys on the end of the guitar are very tight and hard to turn"

Sounds like the adjusting screws/nuts are at the end of their travel. You might have to back them off a bunch of turns, retune the guitar, then reset them. That was what happened to me on my old MSA and a Fender student model I had years ago.

Jerry Roller · From: Van Buren, Arkansas USA

Alan, this is probably not the problem because you said it was fine when you first changed the strings but still I would check to make sure you didn't switch two strings by mistake. The tuning key being tight sound like that string is too heavy. Try to see if one strings feels flimsy and another extra tight. This could cause the changer to float as well.
Jerry

Tucker Jackson · From: Portland, Oregon, USA

Alan, when you installed the new strings, did you get at least 3 or 4 wraps around the posts? If not, they may go flat when you step on the pedals repeatedly.

Also, it might be helpful to know exactly which strings are out of tune. You mentioned AB pedals... but, are all 4 strings moved by those pedals out of tune? Or just one?

Alan Sim · From: Lancashire, U.K.

Hi Guys

Thanks for the replies,I string the guitar using the method shown on the Carter web site,so that should be OK.

I have had a very nice email from the Manufacturer saying that I am probably using the wrong gauge strings,it is mainly the 5th string B that goes first then the 6th G#.

I need to get hold of some 12/36 Jagwire's,I have been using 12/38.

Hopefully,that will sort it out,Wolfgang Bernarz,who makes the WBS, has asked me to try this first,and if it dosen't solve the problem,He will sort it for me.

Thanks

Alan

richard burton · From: Britain

Alan,
Go back to basics.

Try this on string 5 to start with:

Back off all the nylon tuners that raise and lower string 5.

Tune string 5 at the keyhead to the correct pitch (B)

Press pedal A, and tune string 5 to C# using the nylon tuner at the end of the steel.

Release pedal A.

If the note comes back sharp, you have a case of not enough slack in the pull train.

Give it a try, and tell us the results.

Alan Sim · From: Lancashire, U.K.

Hi Richard

Thanks for the suggestion.I followed your instructions exactly and I must have done something right cos I just played my latest tune 6 times and the guitar is still in tune.

When I first did your suggestion,the string stays on B, no pedals,no needle quivering.

A Pedal down,tune to C#,OK,Release the pedal and the open B is still in tune.

A pedal down,this time the C# came back 1 click Flat,1 click on the tuning post,and it appears to be fine.

Maybe I should do this on all the Pedal tunings,as you said,back to basics.

Tomorrow will be the test,if it's still in tune it will be a first.

Thank you for the advice.

Alan ( Fingers Crossed )

Tony Orth · From: Evansville, Indiana, USA

Alan,

And don't forget, the warmth of your hands will affect the tuning. I warm my strings with my hands and then tune them. If you tune them cold, they will go flat when your hands warm them from playing.

You can demonstrate this by tuning your B string to pitch, without touching it except to pick. Then rub your hand or finger on the string about 3-4 times and check the tuning immediately. You should notice that it detuned slightly. In my opinion and experience, the 5th and 6th strings bug me the most because they are in the middle of the guitar, plain smooth steel, and are almost always in contact by my left hand ring and little fingers.

It's a complicated instrument.
Best Wishes
Tony

steve takacs · From: beijing, china via pittsburgh (deceased)

Hi, Richard, sounds like you hit it on the money, but I have a couple of questions. What do you mean by "not enoughtslack in the pull train" and, if that is the case, how do you get more slack in the pull train? Thanks,
steve t

[This message was edited by steve takacs on 13 March 2006 at 05:20 AM.]

richard burton · From: Britain

Steve,
To get more slack in the pull train of an 'All-Pull' steel, (use the A pedal for example), the pedal travel adjustment screw should be unscrewed a tad to give more pedal travel.

When the pedal is pressed, the fifth string will be sharp of C#.

Slacken the nylon tuner until the note is C#

Release the A pedal, and you will notice more slack in the pull-train.

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