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Topic: Emmons single coil going microphonic |
Jordan Beyer
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 28 Nov 2019 8:16 am |
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Hi guys, Happy Thanksgiving.
My 1974 emmons pp sounds absolutely great. It feels alive and has so much warm and punch. Really has great character. That being said, if I leave the volume pedal all the way down and press pedals I can hear it ever so slightly through the amp if I mute the strings. And when I talk into it I can also slightly hear it through the amp. I'd say about 10% of the total volume. So not loud considering the volume, but still noticable. The C6 pup on my option doesnt sound as rich, but is showing no signs of being microphonic. If I remember right, my e9th pup is around 16 ohms, and C6th is around 18. That being said..
I'm 19 years old and will prob have this guitar most of my life, just because it's really connected with me u like any other guitar so far. So my questions are,
How bad do you think it is, it deffinetly isn't "screaming" but shows the signs?
How long do you think it will last untilll it gets worse or unusable? Like I said I plan on having this guitar for a long while.
If I do need to replace it or pot it, will it sound the same, or get it close?
And lastly. What can I do, if anything, to help prevent it from getting worse.
Tbh if it stayed where it's at now on its level of microphonic, it wouldnt be a problem at all. But idk when it may get worse or start acting up. Any info would be appreciated.
Thanks, JB |
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Jack Hanson
From:
San Luis Valley, USA
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Posted 28 Nov 2019 10:25 am
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| I have a D-10 and two student models Emmonses from the early- to mid-seventies, and all four pickups are microphonic to some degree. I don't consider it unusual, especially with the VP floored into a cranked-up amp. If it sounds good otherwise, my advise would be "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." |
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Jordan Beyer
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 28 Nov 2019 11:01 am
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| Jake, have these been microphonic most of the time you've had them, and if so, how long. Do they not get much worse over time? |
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Benjamin Franz
From:
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
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Posted 28 Nov 2019 12:44 pm
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I have exactly the same issue on my push pull E9 pickup, and engaging the pedals makes a noticeable thud with the volume pedal floored. But, it’s only noticeable in isolation, can’t hear it within a group context. I was grappling with getting it rewound, but the pick up sounds so great and alive that I think I will just stick with it.
An option might be to try and source another Emmons pick up, install it and try it out. If you feel you’ve lost something in your sound, switch back to the original pick up, and you should be able to on sell it. |
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Jordan Beyer
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 28 Nov 2019 12:55 pm
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| Ben, how long have you noticed that, and do you think it's gotten worse. Even just alittle? |
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Benjamin Franz
From:
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
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Posted 28 Nov 2019 1:01 pm
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| Jordan, it’s hard to say. I was using a BL705 for a few years, and went back to the single coil about a year ago, and noticed it as soon as I put it in, and don’t remember it being a problem previously. But I was struck immediately by the thought that the single coil sounded much better than I remembered, so not sure if something happened in the few years it was out of the guitar. Anyway, I’m loving the sound I’m getting now, and will be sticking with it. |
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Jack Hanson
From:
San Luis Valley, USA
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Posted 28 Nov 2019 3:44 pm
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| Jordan Beyer wrote: |
| Jake, have these been microphonic most of the time you've had them, and if so, how long. Do they not get much worse over time? |
One of the student models is a fairly recent acquisition, and its pickup is probably the most microphonic of my three Emmons guitars. And it's arguably the best sounding GS-10 I've ever had the pleasure of sitting behind. I've only had it a little over a year, and have not noticed the issue getting progressively worse.
Likewise for the other student model, which I've had for a decade or more, and the D-10, which I purchased used back about 1977. I may be wrong, but I believe it may just be the nature of those old Emmons single coils to be just a tad microphonic. But they sound excellent, and I wouldn't even consider changing them for any other pickup. |
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Jordan Beyer
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 28 Nov 2019 7:18 pm
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| So its almost like they came outta the factory that way, if it's even possible? |
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Bob Carlucci
From:
Candor, New York, USA
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Posted 29 Nov 2019 4:53 pm
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Microphonic pickups aren't "bad" .. They are simply microphonic.. A lot of them are great sounding and as others have said, if you like the sound of the guitar otherwise, you might just want to leave them alone.. I have had pickups rewound over the years, and a few times I didn't like the sound after the rewind.. Be careful about "fixing" pickups that sound good, but are microphonic.. thats often the reason they sound really good... bob
_________________
I'm over the hill and hittin'rocks on the way down!
no gear list for me.. you don't have the time...... |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 29 Nov 2019 5:25 pm
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Every electromagnetic guitar pickup of the traditional design with windings around a magnet has some level of microphonic response. To some extent, the windings will sympathetically vibrate when excited by sufficiently strong external sonic vibrations, which induces a corresponding current in the coil. The issue is the nature of that microphonics - how much and at what frequencies, and also what's the phase relationship to the excitation source.
In my opinion, and in the opinion of many experienced players, some of the best pickups ever made for guitars have a reasonable but low to moderate level of microphonic response. As far as I'm concerned, if it doesn't lead to runaway feedback at undesirable frequencies at typical playing volumes, I ignore it. I've had Tele pickups that squealed horribly at high frequencies and had to pot them. On the other hand, I've had a couple of pedal steel pickups that had enough microphonic response to transmit a bit of mechanical undercarriage noise, but I really liked the way they sounded otherwise and was able to deal with it. Microphonic response tends to get aggravated at high preamp gain distorted settings, but I can usually deal with moderately microphonic pickups at low-gain clean levels.
For slide guitar and blues playing, I and many others actually seek out cheap pickups that have pretty high levels of microphonics. Look up David Lindley's and Ry Cooder's pickups - those crazy cheap pickups out of Teiscos, Guyatones, and other cheap 60s MIJ guitars have enough microphonics to make announcements between songs.  But I love them for some playing, especially slide guitar, as long as I can figure out how to control the microphonic behavior. |
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Bill Terry
From:
Bastrop, TX
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Posted 30 Nov 2019 5:22 am
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Many years ago, the middle pickup on my '62 Strat got microphonic to the point it squealed at fairly high gain when I stood right in front of an amp. Otherwise it sounded great. The problem is usually windings that aren't super tight on the coil, so they can vibrate 'microphonically' when playing at louder volumes.
I read up on 'waxing' the PU, and since it was beginning to be unusable on stage, I went ahead and tried it. It worked great, and that PU is still in the guitar today. The tone did not change at all.
For those that haven't heard of it, here's a pretty good article:
https://www.proaudioland.com/news/pickup-wax-potting-explained/
I'm definitely not recommending that in this case, but I wonder if anyone has ever tried it on a PSG PU? I'm not 100% sure this would help with picking up pedal noise, but maybe?
EDITED: Just noticed I missed that Dave mentioned potting a PU.. that's what I'm talking about. |
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Jordan Beyer
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 30 Nov 2019 6:37 am
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Great responses guys. Sound like the microphonics wont ever become a bad problem and likely sound good due to it having that characteristic
Thanks, JB |
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Jim Pitman
From:
Waterbury Ctr. VT 05677 USA
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Posted 2 Dec 2019 4:17 pm
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Loosely wound pickups will exhibit the most microphonics. What happens is a mechanical vibration moves the wires in the magnetic field producing a signal whose frequency obviously matches the frequency of the vibration. This is undesirable. Only the vibrating string should move the magnetic field around the wires. This is especially important on a PSG with its' noisy mechanics.
The least microphonic pickups will be those whose coils are submerged in melted wax. All the air between the wires gets displace by the wax. When the pickup cools down and the wax hardens voila, the wires no longer move by mechanical disturbance.
Waxing a pickup is not difficult. Use a double boiler to melt the wax otherwise you are in danger of creating a wax fire. The deeper the wax, the quicker the air gets displaced as the weight of the wax above is greater, ie, greater pressure.
Place the pickup in the melted wax. You will see bubbles exiting the coils. Leave there until no more bubbles exit.
Remove it and wipe of any external wax then let it cool. You can refrigerate it so it quickly hardens and wax doesn't have time to settle on the bottom.
I recall Jimmy Day singing into his pickup. It came out his amp. He had a Sho-bud with a loosely wound single coil pickup. |
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Tommy Detamore
From:
Floresville, Texas
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Posted 2 Dec 2019 6:30 pm
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I made frequent trips to Los Angeles in the early 2000’s and took several pickups to John Carruthers’ shop that was in Venice in those days. He had some sort of special process he developed for potting pickups, the details of which escape me at the moment. (Suction maybe, to draw the wax into the coils?) But it sure worked well.
_________________
Tommy Detamore
Quilter Labs, Goodrich Sound, Source Audio, Neunaber Audio, and Stringjoy Authorized Dealer
www.cherryridgestudio.com
www.steelguitartracksonline.com |
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Jim Pitman
From:
Waterbury Ctr. VT 05677 USA
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Posted 3 Dec 2019 5:25 am
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Tommy. I don't know what his process is.
Here is what I did to wax the Tonealigner back when I was making them.
I bought a double boiler, modded the cover by adding a very thin rubber gasket around the cover to get a good seal. I added a pneumatic fitting and plumbed a simple hand vacuum pump to the pot. I used the typical brick of candle wax you can by in stores.
I would submerge the pickups in the melted wax and pump down the enclosure. I don't recall now how much PSI. This certainly made the air bubbles exit the coils faster. However, if you just leave the pickup in the pot for a long time eventually the air leaves. I would then remove the pickup and put it in my freezer. |
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Tommy Detamore
From:
Floresville, Texas
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Posted 3 Dec 2019 5:41 am
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VERY interesting Jim! Thanks for sharing that. I bet what John did was similar. Sure makes sense....
_________________
Tommy Detamore
Quilter Labs, Goodrich Sound, Source Audio, Neunaber Audio, and Stringjoy Authorized Dealer
www.cherryridgestudio.com
www.steelguitartracksonline.com |
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Bill Terry
From:
Bastrop, TX
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Posted 4 Dec 2019 7:04 am
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When I did my Strat pickup I just used a hillbilly method.. Double boiler to melt the wax, dip the pickup in and 'swish' it around for maybe a minute. Take it out, let it cool.. voila, worked.
I'm sure the more engineered methods would be better, maybe I just got lucky? |
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