Took the Tone Master Plunge

Dan Beller-McKenna · From: Durham, New Hampshire, USA

After reading about a thousand posts on dozens of threads here and elsewhere, I finally pulled the trigger on the Tone Master Twin. I ordered it from GC so I could try it out and compare it to my other amps. I don't expect it to sound as good as, say, my '71 Twin head through my Peavey/JBL 15" speaker. That is still by ideal rig, and for gigs where I am only playing steel and have to be loud, that's what I'll bring. But I'm in a project now where I have to play a fair amount of Tele as well, and I really prefer 12" speakers for six-string. I'm set for small gigs with my Deluxe re-issue. Although, who knows: if the TM Twin is that good, I could dial it down to 22 watts with its built in attenuator and use it instead of the Deluxe. (But I do love that Deluxe!)

Here's a question for those who have the amp or who have read up on it pretty thoroughly. I read in a couple of posts (among thousands) that because Fender developed the modeling in this amp and the Jensen Neos to specifically go together, that the sound of the amp will go to pot if one swapped out the speakers. Has anyone else read this or experienced this first hand? I'll certainly test it out when I get the amp. I'm not gonna pull the speakers right away, but I can jump the harness over to another 12" speaker just to get a sense of what happens when the digital modelling signal sees an unfamiliar speaker.

Larry Dering · From: Missouri, USA

Dan, I am seriously interested in those results. I have 2 Twin Reverbs and they never leave the house anymore. Like you mentioned, I would try the jumper method to some of my others and see how it does. I have a Fender Mustang 111 v2 and the modeler is great. I haven't tried external speakers yet using the same method.

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

I have one of the new Tone Master Twins. As I mentioned in another thread I "hear" the tone of the old Twin Reverb I used to have. But I also wonder what a couple of 12" (8 ohm) Travis Toy neo speakers would do for it.

I'm doing my first gig with it tomorrow at Cowboy Church then Monday evening at my regular gig. It will tell me more.

But, I plan on keeping it as I got rid of the boxes.

George Kimery · From: Limestone, TN, USA

I bought my first steel amp new in 1969, a Twin with JBL speakers. I know many others have had Twins with JBL's. There has to be a lot of Tone Master owners wondering how it would sound with JBL's and can't resist trying them. Please post the results when you do it.

Brad Easley · From: Arkansas, USA

Dan Beller-McKenna · From: Durham, New Hampshire, USA

Again, Iâ€™m not sure how well the tone master will take speakers other than the ones it comes with. Happy to be the guinea pig and find out. I live pretty close to a guitar center, so if I am not happy with it, I have 45 days for an easy return.

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

Brooks Montgomery · From: Idaho, USA

Iâ€™ve now done three small bar gigs with mine. Personally I wouldnâ€™t even consider switching out the speakers. For my ears (qualifier: eternal *amateur* bar gigger for 40 years and newbie pedaler) it can be dialed in just fine with those stock speakers (and theyâ€™re not even close to being broke in yet most likely). Those light speakers for me are part of the magic of the package. I wouldnâ€™t want to beef up the carry weight.

I feel like if I say any more positive things about the amp, theyâ€™ll need to start sending me rebates Winking

, price per pound, itâ€™s spendy.

Itâ€™s got the sound I like on pedal, lap, strat, and blues harp. And itâ€™s nice to simply go pedal to amp, done. It would be fun and interesting to do a â€œsound offâ€ with it with a vintage tube Twin. I canâ€™t tell anything from the YouTube vids.
_________________
A banjo, like a pet monkey, seems like a good idea at first.

Dan Beller-McKenna · From: Durham, New Hampshire, USA

TM Twin arrived this morning. I'm probably just being easily influenced by what I've read dozens of times, but my first impression matches what so many six-stringers have said about the Tone Master amps: great sounding amp, really captures the characteristics of a Twin Reverb, and there's a very slight something missing from the sound. Very, very slight. A lot of reviewers say it's the Fender tube "sparkle." Maybe. My guess is that what's lacking are the little distortions and imperfections (crackles, sizzles) of whatever preamp tube happens to be in an original (BF, SF, RI) tube twin (which may translate as "sparkle" to some). Intellectually/rationally, I'd have to say that's an advantage to the Tone Master. But emotionally, I am so used to those tube imperfections that they "sound right." (Kind of like LPs I played to death in my youth that developed signature scratches or skips on particular tracks, tracks that now sound "wrong" to me when those noises are missing on a CD or downloaded file.)

I plan to set up my 71 Twin and JBL cab and see how close I can get the two. Then I'll record some clips and post them.

Oh, and did I mention that the TM Twin is stupid light? 33lbs. Pretty amazing pound-to-sound equation.

Dan Beller-McKenna · From: Durham, New Hampshire, USA

Okay, here's a start. A-B-ing the Tone Master with the 71 Twin I'd say they are as similar as any two tube Twin Reverbs. I was frankly stunned at how well the 12" Jensen Neos stood up to the Peavey/JBL 15" speaker (from Session 400). Tomorrow I'll try putting the TM through the JBL and vice versa with the '71 and Jensens. It's early, and I haven't played the TM outside my study, but I'd have to see I am surprised by how much the amp impresses me.

I recorded five separate clips on each amp and strung them together in the video linked below. This video only identifies them as Amp A and Amp B. I will post a separate video that lists which is which for those who don't want/need to play the guessing game.
For both amps I went through Input 1 of the second channel. I am playing a Sho Bud Super pro with truetone pickups through a Matchbox 7a and Zoom MS50g for reverb and delay.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0gMG1lM0J0&feature=youtu.be

Dave Zirbel · From: Sebastopol, CA USA

Thanks for the video! Both sound very good and similar. I think I prefer Amp A! Curious to see which one it is! Smile

_________________
Dave Zirbel-
Sierra S-10 (Built by Ross Shafer),ZB, Fender 400 guitars, various tube and SS amps

Kristen Bruno · From: Orlando, Florida, USA

It appears nobody wants to play the deluxe version. Sad

K
_________________
"Technology has given us the ability to repeat all the mistakes we have learned from history, but much faster, deadlier and with much greater accuracy" - KAB

George Kimery · From: Limestone, TN, USA

Both amps sound good but I hear something in amp A that is missing in amp B. On the 3rd clip, B sounds better. I am anxiously awaiting for the real tube amp to stand up.

Thanks for posting the clips

Dale McPherson · From: Morristown, Tennessee, USA

I think A And B is switched in some of the clips. Am I right?

Jerry Overstreet · From: Louisville Ky

I'm no good at these comparisons so sorry to butt in here, but these 2 clips are too different to convince a shopper that the amps are close in sound. That might be an eq issue, I don't know. I'll take another listen before passing judgment though.

I absolutely love the definition and tone of amp A in the mid and lower registers but I don't like the high end bite.

Amp 2 sounds smoother, but has a slightly dull sound by comparison. JMO.

Dan Beller-McKenna · From: Durham, New Hampshire, USA

I should add that I had a hard time determining where to place the mic for the single 15" vs. the two 12"s. I agree that the amps sound different in the clips, more than they do in person. I might try a couple more clips tomorrow with different mic placement to capture more clearly what I am hearing in the room. Any suggestions?

Jerry Overstreet · From: Louisville Ky

I wasn't being critical of your test method. I think it's great of you to take the time to do this. Reviews and comparisons of equipment from other steel players are rare and about the only true and useful tests we have.

I know it's a lot of work and I'm sure we all appreciate your doing so. Your playing is very nice too.

Dan Beller-McKenna · From: Durham, New Hampshire, USA

Thanks, Jerry. No criticism taken. I just wanted to note that the amps sound less different in the room (to me anyway) than they do on these tracks. Not knowing much about recording, I would genuinely be happy for suggestions about mic placement.

Bruce Bjork · From: Southern Coast of Maine

Dan: Your killing me with all your amp choices would love to have you over again to listen to how Iâ€™ve dialed in my Katana 100 or I could come to your place. The sound of your Deluxe Reverb reissue at the Neil Young show was awesome.
_________________
Banjo, Dobro, Guild D-40, Telecaster, Justice Pro Lite 3x5, BOSS Katana 100, Peavey Nashville 112 in a Tommy Huff cabinet, Spark, FreeLoader, Baby Bloomer, Peterson StroboPlus HD, Stage One VP.
"Use the talents you possess; the woods would be very silent indeed if no birds sang but the best"

forrest klott · From: Grand Rapids Mi USA

Hi Dan,

Can you share the setting you used?

Thanks!

Skeeter

Dan Beller-McKenna · From: Durham, New Hampshire, USA

Bruce, I know; I'm nothing if not restless when it comes to amps. But since I started playing steel again in 2005, I've always had a Twin Reverb. The '71 I picked up around 2009 or '10 and it won't be sold. The Deluxe is a great complement to the Twin. In the meantime, though, I have gone through wayyyyyy too many amps(!)

Forrest, here's what I used:

Tone Master
Channel 2, Input 1
Bright switch: off
Vol: 4
Treb:5
Mid: 6.5
Bass: 6.5

'71
Channel 2, Input 1
Bright switch: off
Vol: 4
Treb:4
Mid: 7
Bass: 5

For both I went through a Matchbox 7a. I didn;t change the settings on that (Tone around 3:00, Gain around 8:00.

Dave Campbell · From: Nova Scotia, Canada

i bought my tm twin with the intention of trying it and then sending it back. i'll be keeping it. it is surprisingly faithful to an honest to goodness twin (which i have in a '72 with altec 418b).

like most twins, i find that the bass can be a bit mushy and undefined, but the highs are oh so silky.

it also feels like a twin when you're playing, but definitely does not feel like a twin when you carry it.

my favourite feature so far is the attenuator. i can leave the amp on 5 or 6 and play for myself at 5 watts, my weekly tavern gig at 22, and a 300 seat theatre at 40. i have yet to use the 85 watt, but there will be an open air festival next summer i'm sure.

the biggest con for me is the reverb. the decay is so long that i can't use it. i'm hoping that the inclusion of a usb port will mean that fender might release some options for reverb decay. right now my strymon flint is handling reverb duty.

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

One comment. When I do comparison tests, such as recording two different amps or the same amp with different speakers I don't use any effects, black boxes, etc. Just the guitar and volume pedal (for steel guitar).

Mic placement with different speakers, I just set the mic about 6 inches in front of the speaker and centered. I don't do any "off center" so many degrees, etc for testing. I use an SM57 mic.

Dan Beller-McKenna · From: Durham, New Hampshire, USA

Dave, I feel roughly the same about the Tone Master. So much so that I've started to sell off some other really good amps. I had just started gigging my '71 Twin again, but will now have to think long and hard about dragging it around. Even with the chassis is a separate head cabinet, it must weigh a good 45 lbs. (And the 15" JBL in a separate cab is another good 30 lbs). I could probably convince myself that my latest favorite amp, a Reissue Deluxe Reverb, is now expendable since the TM Twin can be attenuated down to 22 watts (or lower), but it sounds so damn good that I'm holding on to that one.

I'll make the final decision after I gig with the Tone Master this Sunday. It's actually a perfect gig for the Deluxe: just me and a singer with an acoustic guitar. But I'll just bump the wattage down to 22 and play the Tone Master like a twin, and it won't overwhelm the sound. Heck: I might even try going direct out of the DI!!

Dan Beller-McKenna · From: Durham, New Hampshire, USA

Thanks Jack. Where do you put the mic when there are two speakers?

Forum Index > Electronics	Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 Next	Next oldest topic :: Next newest topic