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Topic: Anyone ever try Sneaky Pete's tuning............ |
Dave Zirbel
From:
Sebastopol, CA USA
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Posted 29 Sep 2005 10:16 pm |
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......or sit down at his guitar?
Just curious. I'm not a theory wiz so looking at the copedant doesn't tell me much. I have this crazy idea of setting up either my 1000 or 400 with his tuning, just for fun. I love his style.
Dave Z |
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Bosse Engzell
From:
�ppelbo, SWEDEN
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Posted 30 Sep 2005 12:47 am
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NO,,, But it sounds soooooooooooo good to my ears from day 1 I heard him back in -??
He is my HERO
Bosse in Sweden |
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Bobby Lee
From:
Cloverdale, California, USA
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Posted 30 Sep 2005 8:53 am
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I've never tried it, but I've also never heard him do anything that couldn't be duplicated on a standard E9th. His phrasing comes from his mind, not from his copedent.
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 Bobby Lee (a.k.a. b0b) - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Williams D-12 E9, C6add9, Sierra Olympic S-12 (F Diatonic)
Sierra Laptop S-8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster D-8 (E13, C6 or A6) My Blog |
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Russ Tkac
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Posted 30 Sep 2005 9:15 am
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Dave,
When I saw him this summer I noticed that he used the RKR knee lever quite a bit.
Russ |
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Dave Zirbel
From:
Sebastopol, CA USA
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Posted 30 Sep 2005 9:55 am
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I understand what you're saying b0b but in my case a particular tuning or setup will change the way I approach playing a song, and the changed tuning may make it easier to achieve a certain style of playing. Do you think Pete would play the same stuff if he had started out on a standard E9 guitar? Personally I don't think he would sound the same. What do you think? 
DZ[This message was edited by Dave Zirbel on 30 September 2005 at 10:58 AM.] |
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Jim Sliff
From:
Lawndale California, USA
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Posted 30 Sep 2005 10:59 am
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"His phrasing comes from his mind, not from his copedent."
True - but there's still some uniqueness to his sound that I've never heard an E9 player do, especially some of the lowers that he uses. There's also a certain "feel" to a 400 that makes the pull or lower have a different musicality to it - like the difference between long-throw and short-throw B-string benders on Teles. It makes a huge difference in the "movement" of notes.
Plus his tone is completely unique, although a lot of it is standard 400 sound.
FWIW I'm having my 400 set up pretty close, but transposed to A6. It should be fun, and since I'm not an E9 player I won't know what I'm missing (which to me is nothing, since I've never spent much time on one - haven't tried one yet I liked the feel of).
I'll add - trying to duplicate (on an E9 steel) Sneaky playing his "abnormal" 400 would be like trying to duplicate Clarence White's playing on his original Stringbender Tele with a Strat using a Palm Pedal.
In other words - you can't get there from here.
[This message was edited by Jim Sliff on 30 September 2005 at 12:51 PM.] [This message was edited by Jim Sliff on 30 September 2005 at 12:52 PM.] |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 30 Sep 2005 3:10 pm
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| Quote: |
| ...I've also never heard him do anything that couldn't be duplicated on a standard E9th. |
It would have to be a pretty elaborate E9th tuning to get all his voicings. Though he only uses 8 strings, he has 11 pedals, and uses both feet on the pedals most of the time. |
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Dave Zirbel
From:
Sebastopol, CA USA
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Bobby Lee
From:
Cloverdale, California, USA
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Posted 30 Sep 2005 4:12 pm
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| Quote: |
| It would have to be a pretty elaborate E9th tuning to get all his voicings. |
I'm referring to what I've heard him do on records. If you can point me to a recorded example that isn't probable on E9th, I'll cede the point. |
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Russ Tkac
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Posted 30 Sep 2005 5:30 pm
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Sleepy Lagoon and Oklahoma Stomp come to mind.
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Jim Sliff
From:
Lawndale California, USA
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Posted 30 Sep 2005 6:50 pm
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So do "Beat the Heat" and the original Burritos version of "Christine's Tune.
[This message was edited by Jim Sliff on 01 October 2005 at 10:18 PM.] [This message was edited by Jim Sliff on 01 October 2005 at 10:21 PM.] |
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Jim Sliff
From:
Lawndale California, USA
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Posted 1 Oct 2005 9:22 pm
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So anyway, tonight I decided to jump the gun and start by setting up my 6 pedals like Pete's first six - kept it in A6 but with the inversion he uses for his B6 tuning.
Dang - it's fun! I can see where the knee levers, especially the right one will be handy, but it's lots of fun to play like this. Definitely NOT a country setup - everything seems to have more of a rock, blues or swing twist to it. which is perfect for me. A couple more little additions and I'm all set. |
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Brian Herder
From:
Philadelphia, Pa. USA
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Posted 2 Oct 2005 10:38 am
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| Sleepy Lagoon is over the top! For anyone who is familiar with Sneaky Pete based only on his work with The Burrito Brothers and sessions for others, seek this one out. So good. |
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Stu Schulman
From:
Ulster Park New Yawk (deceased)
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Posted 2 Oct 2005 11:00 am
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| I have never tried Sneaky's tuning but I tried a B9th tuning a few years ago,It never got where I wanted.I can get a sound pretty close to Pete's sound when I play most of my inversions on the lower strings,also a small amount of compression,and echo but it's a cheap imatation of the real thing. Pete's touch is so unique I've heard him sound like a classical guitarist,maybe because he uses 5 fingerpicks.On some of the Ronstadt stuff "Hey Colorado"he played on his touch is just so beautiful very relaxed,and floating. |
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Russ Tkac
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Posted 2 Oct 2005 11:35 am
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The first thing I worked up was his work on "I fall to pieces" from the live version on the Ronstadt album. This was pretty easy to do on E9 because I didn't know that it wasn't E9? I'm working out "Sister" from "Meet Sneaky Pete" Great song! It sounds better on my 400 E9 bottom 8 tuning than my ZB's.
Russ |
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 2 Oct 2005 12:14 pm
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He uses five finger picks?
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Mike Bagwell
From:
Greenville, SC, USA
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Posted 2 Oct 2005 12:28 pm
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I play "Beat the Heat" on E9. The only change required that might be considered non standard is first string F# to G#. I think B0b is correct.
Mike
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Jim Sliff
From:
Lawndale California, USA
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Posted 2 Oct 2005 1:09 pm
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"he uses 5 fingerpicks"
I sat 3 feet from him at a show and he used a thumbpick and two fingerpicks.
His tuning is also a B6, not a B9 - F#, G#, B, D# from low to high and repeated. There's a thread on here with his copedent - 9 pedals and 2 knees, although I've seen pictures of him with 10 pedals. The first two pedals are a sort of a take on an Emmons setup...the rest I'm not knwledgeable enough to give any chord info on yet until I map it out and think about it (I'm sort of theory-disadvantaged)
And one time I saw him he was short one of his center pedals because a rod broke - he actually fixed it with a coathanger in the middle of a couple songs during the show - he'd work on the wire, stop to play a fill or solo, work on it some more, and finally got it tweaked. Talked to him afterwards and he said it wasn't the first time he'd had to do that, which was why the coathanger was nearby. Said he'd probably better make a couple to the right shape and just keep 'em in his case. |
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Bobby Lee
From:
Cloverdale, California, USA
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Posted 2 Oct 2005 1:52 pm
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I sat down with "Sleepy Lagoon" and was able to find it without any unusual positions on the E9th. It's a gorgeous arrangement (the guy's a genius!), but it doesn't require any special changes to duplicate it note-for-note on E9th.
Sneaky Pete's copedent goes lower than the 10 string E9th. I suspect that he uses the low strings when he's comping rhythm. I've never noticed anything real low in his recordings.
Pedals 5 and 6 are similar to standard C6th changes. U-12 players have them, but most E9th players don't. I suppose that, in theory, any songs where he used those changes would be awkward on E9th.
To me, there are two things distinctive about Sneaky Pete's playing: his tone and his melodies. The tone is the product of a master's touch on a very specific piece of hardware. The melodies come from his deep rooted understanding of how music works. That same musical understanding produced his copedent.
My point here is that it isn't the copedent that makes Sneaky Pete sound like Sneaky Pete. It's his knowledge of music. He invented his B6th copedent as an expression of musical knowledge. That same universal knowledge is present in the standard E9th.
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Bobby Lee (a.k.a. b0b) - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Williams D-12 E9, C6add9, Sierra Olympic S-12 (F Diatonic)
Sierra Laptop S-8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster D-8 (E13, C6 or A6) My Blog [This message was edited by Bobby Lee on 02 October 2005 at 03:07 PM.] |
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Russ Tkac
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Posted 2 Oct 2005 2:17 pm
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b0b you are correct sir!
The point is the he has a universal tuning. When he can play B6 and E9 on 8 strings you can't over look that he invented a universal tuning. This is why he is so special. If you see it only as things that can be duplicated on E9 you miss the genius of Sneaky. Take your C6 and play E9 licks. It would take a while but you could do it. He plays a commercial style...that’s all.
Russ
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Jim Sliff
From:
Lawndale California, USA
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Posted 2 Oct 2005 5:58 pm
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"I've never noticed anything real low in his recordings."
"He plays a commercial style...that’s all."
Get hold of boots of early Burritos - Winterland, Avalon, Ash Grove (with Clarence White sitting in) - On everything but the Ash Grove he is the only lead instrument and plays everywhere, sometimes sounding like a Tele, sometimes a steel, sometimes a Les Paul through a Marshall. Lots of wierd (at least to a "normal" steel player) , swirling and swooping low notes It's impossible stuff, and completely different from any of the commercial releases. I've seen the same thing most times when he played live in the 70's - completely over the top. Nothing "commercial" about it..in the rock circles we immediately started looking for steel recordings and found nothing even close, except a few things by Speedy West. Buddy Cage played fairly normally, but with Fuzz; Rusty Young was a monster player, but VERY country except for his "organ" sounds.
He got so good at filling space, since Gram and Chris played very sporadic rhythm, that he filled space like no other. There's a story around that Buddy Emmons has said that when he and Pete recorded "Yesterday" for the Suite Steel album the recordding was going great with Buddy playing lad and Pete backing, but when Pete took over the lead the rhythm collapsed - Emmons couldn't come close. But he'd never had to cover as much territory in a song as Pete had.
A scary player and a very, very nice man. One of the most humble ever. Pretty goood at his day job as well - if you've seen Terminator 2 you've seen a good example of his stop motion animation work.
Can someone give a brief explanation of the # 3 and 4 pedals? I can find things to do with them playing...but have no idea what the changes actually do in context.[This message was edited by Jim Sliff on 02 October 2005 at 07:10 PM.] |
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Stu Schulman
From:
Ulster Park New Yawk (deceased)
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Posted 2 Oct 2005 6:02 pm
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| He dosen't use 5 fingerpicks?I htought that I read that somewhere. |
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Mike Bagwell
From:
Greenville, SC, USA
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Posted 2 Oct 2005 9:11 pm
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Pedal 3 is there to get a flat 7th, think 9th string or 2nd string lowered 1/2 tone on standard E9. Pedal 4 is the same as E's to Eb on standard E9.
Pedal 5 is like B's to Bb on standard E9 pretty common, and pedal 6 is like lowering your the 6th string a 1/2 on E9 its a standard move with split tuning, same notes are also available by raising 1 and 7 a half tone.
Mike |
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Russ Tkac
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Posted 3 Oct 2005 4:07 am
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"I play what I think is a really commercial style of playing. I feel that I have something unique to offer, and that's what I do." (Sneaky Pete SG #2 May 1979 pg. 20)
He IS special and unique. He is not like another Pringles from the can.
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Jim Sliff
From:
Lawndale California, USA
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Posted 3 Oct 2005 6:35 am
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Not Pringles - man, that's the truth!
He even did some roller-disco stuff when that was hot. It never really went anywhere, but it took some big brass ones to even go there on steel.... |
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