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Topic: Push-Pull tone vs All Pull tone |
Greg Lambert
From:
Illinois, USA
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Posted 6 Oct 2019 10:26 am |
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I have heard a lot about how much better the tone of a PP is compared to an all pull. My question is
1. Just considering the undercarriage mechanisms , What exactly makes one tone better than the other mechanisms tone?
A friend of mine owns an old Emmons PP and it sounds great , but not better than my Derby all pull through the same amp. |
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Eric Philippsen
From:
Central Florida USA
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Posted 6 Oct 2019 6:51 pm
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A LOT has been written over the years on just this subject and it’s all been posted here on the Forum. Repeat, a lot. Do a search or two and start reading.
Push-Pull tone isn’t “better†than all-pull. It just isn’t. It’s all personal preference. |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 7 Oct 2019 7:24 am
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The primary reason for the better tone on the p/p is because of the design of the changer. There is solid metal to metal contact when making a change.
The ZB has the same design resulting in a great tone. 
Erv |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 7 Oct 2019 7:46 am
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Frankly, I don't hear much difference between an Emmons push-pull and their all-pull LaGrande model. If I wanted the Emmons sound, I'd use a LaGrande because they are easier to play and to work on. The difference in tone is pretty subtle to these ears.
_________________
-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 7 Oct 2019 8:02 am
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You won't get the p/p "growl" on an all pull.
The closest you'll come on an all pull is the Zum Hybrid.
Erv |
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Jim Pitman
From:
Waterbury Ctr. VT 05677 USA
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Posted 10 Oct 2019 5:28 am
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I've had four different brand guitars now including an Emmons PP.
Two of them didn't sound good and lacked sustain. These two guitars used thicker top wood than the Emmons (at 1/2") which leads to me to conclude that is an important aspect. |
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Johnie King
From:
Tennessee, USA
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Posted 10 Oct 2019 6:22 am
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| Your never going to find out until you try a good push pull out I know when I go to Nashville an here a good player playing a push pull in a noisy bar they cut through the noise from the front to back of Tootsies bar, while other steels get lost in the noise. |
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chuck abend
From:
Kansas City,Mo.64155 U.S.A.
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Posted 10 Oct 2019 5:40 pm thomas verses push pull
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My Thomas D10 has the ultimate sound thru a Nashville 400 with the volume knob pulled out ,and set the EQ for that PP tone.
to enhance the highs.And it stays in tune.
It has the chrome Alumatones on it.
See my post in pedal steel...I put the mod on the 400 but it killed the highs ,so I restored it to factory
setting. chuck Abend |
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Patrick Huey
From:
Nacogdoches, Texas, USA
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Posted 12 Oct 2019 8:36 am
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| Erv Niehaus wrote: |
You won't get the p/p "growl" on an all pull.
The closest you'll come on an all pull is the Zum Hybrid.
Erv |
Erv
Absolutely! That good push/pull “growly twangâ€. Not all of them have it and they have to be well set up by someone who knows exactly what they are doing but when they got it it’s “that thing that sound “ for sure!
_________________
Pre RP Mullen D10 8/7, Zum 3/4, Carter S-10 3/4, previous Cougar SD-10 3/4 & GFI S-10 3/4, Fender Steel King, 2 Peavey Session 500's, Peavey Nashville 400, Boss DD-3, Profex-II, Hilton Digital Sustain, '88 Les Paul Custom,Epiphone MBIBG J-45, Fender Strat & Tele's, Takamine acoustics, Marshall amps, Boss effects, Ibanez Tube Screamer, and it all started with an old cranky worn out Kay acoustic you could slide a Mack truck between the strings and fretboard on!! |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 12 Oct 2019 11:34 pm
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plus it may not be something we notice right out of the gate. It may take an entire gig to recognize where the differences lay. Much of it has to do with how we play and what positions we play out of.
I play a mid 90s L II and an 81 P Pull. The P Pull has a very defined sweet spot which to me is very recognizable.
The problem is, for me, as I am playing and enjoying the "sweet tone" , the solo or song is over ! 
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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Damir Besic
From:
Nashville,TN.
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Posted 13 Oct 2019 12:57 am
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I wouldn't say its better, but rather a different, every guitar has it's own tone, I personally prefer Sho Bud tone, and thats why I have a new Show Pro, and I love the tone... but I also have Emmons Legrande, and it is interesting to me how different those two instruments are tone and playability wise, but both great playing and sounding guitars... but what do I know ...
_________________
www.steelguitarsonline.com |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 13 Oct 2019 2:50 am
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| Damir Besic wrote: |
but what do I know ...
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well, probably just a bit more than me !
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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Damir Besic
From:
Nashville,TN.
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Posted 13 Oct 2019 5:19 am
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| Tony Prior wrote: |
| Damir Besic wrote: |
but what do I know ...
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well, probably just a bit more than me ! |
Tony, thank you, but I enjoy reading your posts , and always learn something new from you, so I highly doubt that I know more lol ... and after all , “good tone†is a very subjective thing, and what is a “good tone†to me, might very well not be to someone else...
_________________
www.steelguitarsonline.com |
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Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
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Posted 13 Oct 2019 8:12 am
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| Damir Besic wrote: |
but what do I know ...
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You know how to be humble. With all the instruments that have passed through your hands, and the great players who have turned to you for your expertise, I would respect your opinion on tone and mechanics as much as anyone’s, especially push-pulls. Plus, I understand you can drive a tour bus... |
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Damir Besic
From:
Nashville,TN.
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Posted 13 Oct 2019 12:28 pm
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thank you Fred for the nice words, my thing is I love steel guitars period, they just about all sound good to me, it always boils down to the player I guess, some guys can make any guitar sound great
_________________
www.steelguitarsonline.com |
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Posted 13 Oct 2019 12:51 pm
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Another "what do I know" interjection. Concerning push-pull Emmons observation from one that I played for about 10 yrs. v. several other all-pull guitars:
It's a certain je ne sais quoi that's hard to describe and is most obvious in the heat of the battle when the whole band is cookin' and everybody's hammerin'. The way the push pull sparkles, blends and growls at higher volume when you're pushing hard is unlike any guitar that I've played in my 40 yrs. of playing.
It's just something you have to experience to understand it.
Still, you can make good music on any of the quality all pull guitars, it's just a different thing.
So you ask, why did you let the Emmons go if it sounded so good? Well, I just didn't know what I had. It was the first professional steel I owned. I moved over to universal 14's after 10 yrs. and by the time I had it straightened out, I realized that I was missing that special quality I had before.
I have to say though, that the all pull guitars I've played were all easier to play and were less finicky, but I still miss my P/P. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 13 Oct 2019 3:06 pm Re: Push-Pull tone vs All Pull tone
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| Greg Lambert wrote: |
| I have heard a lot about how much better the tone of a PP is compared to an all pull... |
Yeah, I agree. Gets old after awhile, doesn't it? 
~ |
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Bob Snelgrove
From:
san jose, ca
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Posted 17 Oct 2019 3:55 pm
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| b0b wrote: |
| Frankly, I don't hear much difference between an Emmons push-pull and their all-pull LaGrande model. If I wanted the Emmons sound, I'd use a LaGrande because they are easier to play and to work on. The difference in tone is pretty subtle to these ears. |
So why does a LeGrande still have "that" Emmons sound? I have both and am impressed with the Legrande even though it lacks some of the "growl" it still sounds like an Emmons!
bob |
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Chris Grigsby
From:
Boulder, CO
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Posted 17 Oct 2019 6:37 pm
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| Damir Besic wrote: |
I wouldn't say its better, but rather a different, every guitar has it's own tone, I personally prefer Sho Bud tone, and thats why I have a new Show Pro, and I love the tone... but I also have Emmons Legrande, and it is interesting to me how different those two instruments are tone and playability wise, but both great playing and sounding guitars... but what do I know ...
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Wow, talk about having the best of both worlds Damir! Your new Show Pro is gorgeous, and the black Emmons is simply timeless.
I've owned some amazing all-pull guitars in my admittedly brief tenure, but I can't get over how great this Emmons Push/Pull is that I recently picked up. I hear a lot of people describe these guitars as having 'growl' and 'bite', but I wouldn't describe mine this way. It seems to really cut through a mix, but without the slightest hint of harshness.
_________________
Mullen Discovery S10, Hilton VP, Kemper Profiler Head and Kabinet. |
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Greg Lambert
From:
Illinois, USA
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Posted 17 Oct 2019 7:04 pm Damir
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| How do you like that amp? |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 17 Oct 2019 9:27 pm
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| Bob Snelgrove wrote: |
| So why does a LeGrande still have "that" Emmons sound? I have both and am impressed with the Legrande even though it lacks some of the "growl" it still sounds like an Emmons! |
There's a theory that it's generated by the rattle of some of a push-pull's "slack" parts under the hood.
_________________
-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Bob Snelgrove
From:
san jose, ca
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Posted 17 Oct 2019 9:29 pm
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| b0b wrote: |
| Bob Snelgrove wrote: |
| So why does a LeGrande still have "that" Emmons sound? I have both and am impressed with the Legrande even though it lacks some of the "growl" it still sounds like an Emmons! |
There's a theory that it's generated by the rattle of some of a push-pull's "slack" parts under the hood. |
But a LeGrande doesn't have that "slack" but still sounds like an Emmons? (To me) |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 17 Oct 2019 9:55 pm
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| What I mean is that the slack parts help to bring out the "growl", which is why you hear it more on a push-pull.. |
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Ben Michaels
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 18 Oct 2019 1:52 am
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What would be really interesting is to hear to audio clips of the same song/amp/setup by the same player. One with a push pull and one all pull.
Even better would be not labeling the clips and seeing how many of us get it right as to which is which. |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 18 Oct 2019 7:25 am
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b0b,
It's not the slack parts that bring out the growl, it is the solid, metal to metal, contact that the changer fingers make.
They aren't dangling out in space like with an all pull.
Erv |
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