Extended E9 12-string basic set-up question

Cliff Kane · From: the late great golden state

Hello,
I've been playing a basic 3x4 10 string E9 guitar for a while, and have had the urge to try the 12 string extended E9 guitar. I'm curious if it is best to use a guitar with a similar configuration to a 10 string E9 guitar, for example with three pedals and four or five knee levers, or does it make sense to use a Universal 12 string guitar with something along the lines of eight floor pedals and five or six knee levers? I know that a Universal 12 is designed for the Universal 12 tuning, not the extended E9 tuning, but would it extend the E9 tuning even more to have the extra pedals and levers of a Universal 12 guitar, or would it be unnecessary overkill to use a Universal 12 guitar for an extended E9 12 string tuning? Is anyone doing this? Any thoughts you can offer will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!
Cliff

Micky Byrne · From: United Kingdom (deceased)

Hi Cliff, I like you started of on a single 10 with with 3 pedals and 4 knees. I then got an extended E/9th 12 string for just a "little" while, before I got an engineer to add the "extras" to make it a full blown universal. On my 10 stringer, my raise and lowers of the E's were on the right knee, so I didn't have to worry about the change over as most universals have those on the right.All I had to get used to was the missing "D" note on the open tuning which as you know you get back anyway on a knee lever. That took me all of a couple of hours as I had to go straight to a gig when the guitar was ready. I personally think this is the best way to go, because you have your normal E/9th and the extra pedals for your B/6th...when you hold your E's down. Dont class it as two separate tunings but one "big" tuning as there are so many ways the two tunings can interact with each other

Micky Byrne http://mickybyrne.50webs.com/index.html

Erv Niehaus · From: Litchfield, MN, USA

If you have been playing an E9th tuning, I would just keep that tuning. I have a couple of 12 string guitars and I really enjoy the "richness" of those two lower strings. I didn't see any need to reinvent the wheel with a "universal" tuning. Just maintain your present pedal and lever setup and just extend the pulls to the two new lower strings.
Erv

[This message was edited by Erv Niehaus on 22 February 2006 at 07:54 AM.]

Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

Hey Cliff, I live pretty close to you, and I have an SD 12 with an exteneded E9 that I need to sell in order to pay fopr me new Millennium, and several U-12s. (one of which I also need to sell for the same reason.) You're more than welcome to come over and compare the 2 tunings and see which you prefer. (No obligation or pressure to buy either.)

Check your E-mail.

Cliff Kane · From: the late great golden state

Thank you, Micky and Erv, for your responses and your input. It’s interesting, Micky, that you started out with a setup like mine, went to the extended E9 as I wish to do, and finally arrived at the U12. This is all good food for thought. Thanks again, guys, this is much appreciated. Mike, I got your email and I will be in touch; I truly appreciate your help.

Cliff

David Doggett · Posted 22 Feb 2006 10:15 am

If all you play is traditional country, and you have been playing an S10 for a long time. You might be happier with an extended E9 with 3 or more pedals and 4 or more levers. Many of them come with one or two extra pedals, and you can always add them later if you want them. The instrument will be less expensive and lighter without the extra 6th mode pedals.

However, when I got an extended E9 (3 & 4), I found the grips on the bottom were too complicated. Soon after, I also got a universal (7 & 5). I quickly got use to the missing D string being on a lever, and the grips on the bottom seemed much simpler to me. In addition, I had the whole B6 mode to begin learning. Also, even though the universal has only two additional strings, because the D goes on a lever you actually get three additional bottom strings. The new lowest string (missing on extended E9) provides the low root for the A pedal minor chord, and also for the A pedal/F lever chord. The minor root is especially useful for blues, rock, jazz and classical music.

It seems to me that universals are more common on the market, and are only slightly more expensive than extended E9s. If you are adventuresome, and intend to play things other than traditional country, I would go for a universal. You can always take the extra pedals off to save weight, and set it up as an extended E9, if you don't like the universal.

------------------
Student of the Steel: Zum uni, Fender tube amps, squareneck and roundneck resos, tenor sax, keyboards

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

I like the grips on the low strings of Extended E9th. The arrangement of the strings makes walking tic-tac lines intuitive, to me anyway.

Back to the initial question: I would recommend keeping your 3+4 copedent, but adding a few pulls for the low strings:

Raise 11th string G# to A on your 2nd pedal (required).

Lower 12th string E to D on your 3rd pedal (optional, but very useful).

Add a 12th string E pull on your F lever (optional). I lower the low E to C# ala Winnie Winston, but some people raise the low E to F.

If you're ordering a new guitar for this, it might also be a good time to add a LKV to get the standard 5th string lower (B to A#).

I'll probably get roasted for this, but I think that the U-12 with all of the C6th pedals is overkill for most people. Extended E9th might just have everything you'll ever need.

------------------

Bobby Lee (a.k.a. b0b) - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Williams D-12 E9, C6add9, Sierra Olympic S-12 (F Diatonic)
Sierra Laptop S-8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster D-8 (E13, C6 or A6) My Blog

Cliff Kane · From: the late great golden state

More excellent input on this....this is really helpful. Btw: sorry for my ignorance, but what is a walking tic-tac line??? Is that like a walking blues line, walking bass line?

Jim Eaton · From: Santa Susana, Ca

I recently purchased a ZUM SD-12 7/5 right here on the Forum and will be taking it down to see Jim @ Steel Guitars of North County real soon to go through it and change it from E9/B6 to Ext E9 w 5/5.
I had an E9/B6 Sierra Session 12 stg guitar for a couple of years and it was the grips on the low end and the missing "D" stg that I could not get use to, so I'm with b0b on this one. Ext E9 for me!!
JE:-)>

David Doggett · Posted 22 Feb 2006 12:20 pm

I agree with b0b to put changes on the new bottom strings similar to what is on the strings an octave above, plus any additional changes down there you might want. For some strange reason many used and new 12-strings, both extended E9 and unis, come with no changes on the bottom strings. How odd. It's no wonder that some people try these and don't like them. You are missing half the fun down there.

Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

I drop the low B to A on my U-12, and also drop the 11th string (E) to C# on the E-F raise, and again to the same note on a seperate knee lever so I can get the bass note for the C# minor chord position.

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

Cliff, tic-tac is when an instrument (usually a guitar) doubles the bass part note-for-note an octave higher. It's a common effect in classic country.

Steve Hackney · From: Milton, Kentucky USA

Does the addition of pulling an extra string on the levers and pedals make them noticeably stiffer?

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

Forum Index > Pedal Steel		Next oldest topic :: Next newest topic

All times are GMT - 8 Hours	Jump to: