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Topic: Lap Steel tone |
James Quackenbush
From:
Pomona, New York, USA
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Posted 7 Oct 2019 4:26 am |
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| I’ve noticed on a lot of lap steels that the tone is quite a bit thinner than even an electric guitar, never mind a pedal steel.....What mods are you guys using to thicken the tone ? |
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Noah Miller
From:
Rocky Hill, CT
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Posted 7 Oct 2019 5:05 am
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I don't share that observation; if anything, lap steels tend to be a bit darker than the average guitar because they tend to have a shorter scale length and use heavier strings.
If you want to thicken the sound, I'd start with the tone controls on the instrument and the amp. If they don't get you where you want to be, try an EQ pedal. |
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Allan Revich
From:
Victoria, BC
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Posted 7 Oct 2019 6:19 am
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Like Noah, to my ears, the unmodified (ie/no pedals) tone of most lap steels sounds a lot richer than most guitars... exceptions exist of course.
There are lots of ways to get the tone we desire though. Lots of interesting pedal choices to play with too. Equalizer, compression pedal, overdrive are where I’d start to fatten up my default tone - after changing my amp choice.
_________________
Current Tunings:
6 String | G – G B D G B D
7 String | G6 – e G B D G B D (re-entrant)
https://papadafoe.com/lap-steel-tuning-database |
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Daniel Baston
From:
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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Posted 7 Oct 2019 7:55 am
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I have a lap steel that is not really a revered model (mid 60-s Gibson Skylark), but I find that if I run the tone control quite low, say around 3 or 4 seems to be the sweet spot on this guitar, that I can get a very fat tone. I find the sweet spot by rolling off the tone until the guitar sounds muffled and then slowly opening it up and playing around with it right around the spot where the tone starts to open up. messing around with the treble control on the amp and the tone control of the guitar helps to dial in that line between things sounding fat, but open and not muffled.
The other thing (that I am still getting the hang of) is the combination of the tone control, getting just the right amount of bar pressure (for me it is just enough to lose any buzzy rattle), picking intensity and picking position (near the bridge, vs further up the neck) has altogether a massive effect on the tone. Tweaking all of those factors gives a huge variety of sounds. If I play with the tone control open all the way and pick near the bridge the guitar is painfully bright, an awful sound actually. But when I get it dialed in, I get a sound that has a lot more meat to it than I can get on a standard electric guitar!
Just my experience, not sure if that helps! |
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John Limbach
From:
Billings, Montana, USA
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Posted 7 Oct 2019 8:31 am
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| Daniel Baston wrote: |
| I find that if I run the tone control quite low, say around 3 or 4 seems to be the sweet spot on this guitar, that I can get a very fat tone. |
Great observation and works just that way on my Rickenbackers. My sweet spot is in exactly the same place. Just as the muddiness ends and the string separation becomes apparent.
Also, some great players (Bobby Ingano, Jerry Byrd, and Herb Remington, to name a few) said, in so many words, that the last thing a lap steel needs is treble. They advised, generally, to start with the amp's bass control full on and the treble and mids all the way off. Then slowly add back some if you really felt you needed it. Hard to argue with the masters even if their tone is really in their fingers. |
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Bill Groner
From:
QUAKERTOWN, PA
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Posted 7 Oct 2019 8:37 am
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| Daniel Baston wrote: |
I have a lap steel that is not really a revered model (mid 60-s Gibson Skylark), but I find that if I run the tone control quite low, say around 3 or 4 seems to be the sweet spot on this guitar, that I can get a very fat tone. I find the sweet spot by rolling off the tone until the guitar sounds muffled and then slowly opening it up and playing around with it right around the spot where the tone starts to open up. messing around with the treble control on the amp and the tone control of the guitar helps to dial in that line between things sounding fat, but open and not muffled.
The other thing (that I am still getting the hang of) is the combination of the tone control, getting just the right amount of bar pressure (for me it is just enough to lose any buzzy rattle), picking intensity and picking position (near the bridge, vs further up the neck) has altogether a massive effect on the tone. Tweaking all of those factors gives a huge variety of sounds. If I play with the tone control open all the way and pick near the bridge the guitar is painfully bright, an awful sound actually. But when I get it dialed in, I get a sound that has a lot more meat to it than I can get on a standard electric guitar!
Just my experience, not sure if that helps! |
I don't have a Skylark, but I have experienced exactly what you have said above.
_________________
Currently own, 6 Groner-tone lap steels, one 1953 Alamo Lap steel, Roland Cube, Fender Champion 40 |
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Gene Tani
From:
Pac NW
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Posted 7 Oct 2019 10:16 pm
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Different sizes/weights of bars and LH pressure definitely make a difference. Other things to look at are pickup height and breakover angle t the nut.
Also when i switched from passive pot volume pedal to a buffered active one the highs improved dramatically in the more heel down range. I think (but not absolutely sure) buffer/preamp pedals like Lil izzy, Matchbox, freeloader or Signal sweetener work similarly
_________________
- keyless Sonny Jenkins laps stay in tune forever!; Carter PSG
- The secret sauce: polyester sweatpants to buff your picks, cheapo Presonus channel strip for preamp/EQ/compress/limiter, Diet Mountain Dew |
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Alex Burns
From:
Victoria, Australia
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Posted 8 Oct 2019 12:13 am re tone
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| totally agree with john limbach |
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Tim Whitlock
From:
Colorado, USA
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Posted 8 Oct 2019 10:18 am
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| I have two Fenders, two Ricks and an Oahu. All are voiced differently but all of them can be thin or piercing with the tone and volume full on. As others have mentioned, the guitar controls are your friend. Assuming your amp is set for a balanced tone, the sweet spot for the guitar is a combination of tone and volume settings. I agree with the technique of finding the point on your tone control where the guitar just emerges from the mud zone and gets some clarity. Pulling back the volume a hair can help too if your pickup is very sensitive. In general, you should be able to get there without adding effects, mods or eq pedals, which will just further complicate things. |
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Nic Neufeld
From:
Kansas City, Missouri
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Posted 8 Oct 2019 1:59 pm
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On regular guitars / basses I rarely touch the tone knob. But with steel guitar...especially certain ones...that capacitor circuit is your friend. Also consider...most of these guitars have a pickup right by the bridge and usually get played through very clean sounding (often bright) amps...and often with metal picks! So it's hard to compare to, say, my SG with a neck P90 with some tube overdrive softening the tone as well.
Gear aside, hand technique is also a factor. As others have mentioned, insufficient bar pressure is likely to cause buzz, loss of sustain, tinny sounds etc. And on the right hand, my teacher always urges me to play closer to the center of the stopped string (equidistant from bridge and bar) to get a nice round bell-like tone. Keep an eye on your right hand and don't let it sit in a fixed position close to the bridge. Sometimes a lighter touch helps too...digging in too much brings out unwanted twang potentially.
_________________
Waikīkī, at night when the shadows are falling
I hear the rolling surf calling
Calling and calling to me |
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Bill Groner
From:
QUAKERTOWN, PA
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Posted 8 Oct 2019 3:26 pm
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And on the right hand, my teacher always urges me to play closer to the center of the stopped string (equidistant from bridge and bar) to get a nice round bell-like tone. Keep an eye on your right hand and don't let it sit in a fixed position close to the bridge.
Thank you Nic (and your teacher) for the tip. What a difference this makes!
_________________
Currently own, 6 Groner-tone lap steels, one 1953 Alamo Lap steel, Roland Cube, Fender Champion 40 |
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James Quackenbush
From:
Pomona, New York, USA
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Posted 9 Oct 2019 4:07 am
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| Thanks guys ....All good info ! ...... I’m aware of a lot of what’s said here, and thought that perhaps someone had some ideas on thickening effects or pickups that made a pronounced difference in thickening their tone.....or maybe I’m looking for too much out of my lap steels.......??? |
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Andy Volk
From:
Boston, MA
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Posted 9 Oct 2019 6:19 am
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I am also in the camp that steels aren't inherently brighter but the amp settings also have a lot to do with the sound. Roll off the highs and boost the midi and lower mids if a thicker, darker sound is your goal. You can also add an EQ to your signal chain. I not6iced in Doug Beaumier's videos he is constantly adjusting his right hand position, something that can make a big difference and that I need to remind myself to do. Tone is so inherently subjective ... one person's "dark" tone is another person's "mud".
_________________
Steel Guitar Books! Website: www.volkmediabooks.com |
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Jack Hanson
From:
San Luis Valley, USA
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Posted 11 Oct 2019 4:11 pm
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I concur with John, Alex, and Andy. Much will depend on your amp and its settings. As a general rule, to avoid the thin tone you describe, set the bass higher and the treble lower than you would use for a standard electric guitar. Check out the settings the wonderful Chris Scruggs has his Deluxe Reverb dialed in to on this informative Mel Bay video at about the 28 second mark:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuAchSYA6Xo |
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Jerry Wagner
From:
California, USA
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