E9th 7th String lower

Steve Dodson · From: Sparta, Tennessee, USA

I was just curious how many of you guys are useing the F# to F 7th string lower on the E9th neck? One of my favorite pro players has this change,but he does not raise the 8th string E to F. I have never tryed it, but was wondering if there was much use for it,since the 8th string E to F raise is standard on the E9th neck. Is there any moves here that would make this change add to the tuning?

Earnest Bovine · From: Los Angeles CA USA

Yes, I've used basically this for about 25 years:



                      P    P


       LKL   LKR                 RKL     RKR


 F#  ........................................  F#


 D#              .              -D,--C#        D#


 G#              .        +A             -G    G#


 E     +F   -D#  ............................  E


 B               .  ++C#                       B


 G#              .        +A             -G    G#


 F#              .              -F,--E         F#


 E     +F   -D#  ............................  E


 D               .              (D),-C#        D


 B               .  ++C#                       B


 G#              .        +A             -G    G#


 E   .........................  (E),++F#       E

I also wonder who else uses it.

Jon Light · From: Saugerties, NY

Well, it's on the 'standard' U-12 P5 (P6 for me) which I often regard as an extended/enhanced E9.

Dean Parks · From: Sherman Oaks, California, USA

Gary Carpenter lowers 7 to E, LKV I think.

Bengt Erlandsen · From: Brekstad, NORWAY

I have the F#-F next to the C pedal on my S12E9ext



  <<  <     >                      <  >>  >


  LK LK LV LK P1 P2 P3 P4 P5 P6 P7 RK RK RK


F#.....................F..............G#... 


D#.................................D-C#....


G#...............A.........................


E ...F..F#.Eb.......F#.....................


B ............C#....C#.......C#.Bb.........


G#.G.............A........A#.A#............


F#.....................F..............G#...


E ...F.....Eb............................F#


D .................................C#....D#


B ............C#................Bb.........


G#.G.............A........A#...............


E ..................F#.C#..................

One important thing w 7F#-F is that E's to Eb must be possible to use at the same time if needed.

Bengt Erlandsen

Dan Beller-McKenna · From: Durham, New Hampshire, USA

Bengt,

for what do you use the F#-F and E-Eb together?

Dan

------------------
Dan Beller-McKenna
Durham, NH

Steve Dodson · From: Sparta, Tennessee, USA

Good question Dan. I was about to ask the same thing. I was thinking of trying this one,but wanted some feedback from other players before I put it on my guitar.

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

On E9th, lowering the E's to D# makes the tuning a B6th. The F# lower to F then serves exacly the same function as C6th pedal 5. Think of it in terms of a C#9th chord, with strings 10 and 8 providing the b7 and 9th tones, respectively (it's a D9th on the C6th).

Dan Beller-McKenna · From: Durham, New Hampshire, USA

Bobby,

well, yes: but on an S-10 E9 you won't get the root unless you hit the C pedal, which will double up the F on string 1 (assuming that too gets lowered). Is this perhaps a more useful change on the U12? Maybe I'm just having a hard time imagining my Dekley getting a clean sound with those extended tones (7 and 9) bunched on the low strings.

Dan

------------------
Dan Beller-McKenna
Durham, NH

[This message was edited by Dan Beller-McKenna on 21 February 2006 at 04:22 PM.]

Michael Barone · From: Downingtown, Pennsylvania

Besides the ninth chord b0b mentions, you can get a full diminished chord (strummable from strings 3 to 10) if you lower Es to D with F# to F. The extra tri-tone there gives you 2 more seventh chord segments.

Mike

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

Those 7th and 9th tones of the C#9 are also in the higher octave on strings 5 and 4. The F (E#) is the 3rd of the chord.



  (L means Lower)


F# _____________


D# _____________


G# _____________


E  ______6L_____   A


B  ______6______   F


G# _____________


F# ______6L_____   B


E  _____________


D  _____________


B  _____________


                (G9 chord notes)

The idea here is that at the 6th fret with your E's lowered in the key of C you would normally be looking at a Dm7 or F6 chord. Lower the 7th string and it becomes the dominant-sounding G9.

------------------

Bobby Lee (a.k.a. b0b) - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Williams D-12 E9, C6add9, Sierra Olympic S-12 (F Diatonic)
Sierra Laptop S-8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster D-8 (E13, C6 or A6) My Blog

Steve Dodson · From: Sparta, Tennessee, USA

Thanks for the comments guys,keep them coming,cause I am really learning a lot about this. I think I am going to give it a try. Would lowering the F# to F be more useful than raising the F# to G#, or is that another story for another time?
Thanks Again

Bengt Erlandsen · From: Brekstad, NORWAY

Why E's-Eb and 7string F#-F
View it as a C#9 voicing where the F note is the 3rd and the Eb note is the 9th.
Lowering 9th string to C# at the same time (Right knee lever)will give the root note of the C# voicing.

Check my copedent above and consider LKR + P4 + RKL = low to high
C# G# B C# Eb F G# B Eb G# C# F = C#9
Transposed down for easier viewing
C G Bb C D E G Bb D G C E = C9

If you enjoy playing in the position where you use E's to Eb and 2&9 lowered to C# you sure will like to press the pedal to lower 7th string from the 4th note to the 3rd in a diatonic scale.

If you also have the B-Bb available you can control the b7th note down to a 6th

Or if you have the 6th string G#- A# available you can raise the 5th note to a 6th and still have the b7 note on the 5th string.

Bengt Erlandsen

[This message was edited by Bengt Erlandsen on 22 February 2006 at 03:04 AM.]

David Wren · From: Placerville, California, USA

Steve, I raise F#->G and lower to F.... I'd really miss both of these changes if I had to lose them. I use the F#->G for vamping on the 7th (A&B pedals down), and use the F#->F a lot when doing smooth decending scales. I only have the F#-G# on the first string. Hope this helps.

------------------
Dave Wren
'95Carter S12-E9/B6,7X7; Twin Session 500s; Hilton Pedal; Black Box
www.ameechapman.com

Steve Dodson · From: Sparta, Tennessee, USA

Thanks Dave, I had not thought about going that direction. Sounds interesting.
Thanks Again

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