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Topic: Vintage Lapsteel Tuners & Difficulty Getting Precise Tuning |
David DeLoach
From:
Tennessee, USA
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Posted 30 Sep 2019 5:05 am |
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I've got a 1940 Gibson EH-185 that has absolutely wonderful old tuners on it. I can turn them so easily and dial in precise 0 cents tuning.
However, on the following steels, it's a challenge. If I can get within 2 or 3 cents from the target, that seems as good as I can get....
1948 Gibson BR9
1940 Richenbacher B6
1938 Oahu
1957 T8 Stringmaster
1960 D8 Stringmaster
So....is it ME or is it the tuners on these old guitars? |
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C. E. Jackson
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 30 Sep 2019 5:39 am
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I think it's the operator. 
Erv |
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Noah Miller
From:
Rocky Hill, CT
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Posted 30 Sep 2019 6:23 am
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| Tuner gears can wear, especially when they're that old, but most tuning problems actually stem from the strings binding at the nut and/or bridge. Before swapping out hardware, I'd make sure the slots are filed large enough for the strings in question and try adding a bit of graphite as lubricant. |
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Matt Berg
From:
Pennsylvania, USA
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Posted 1 Oct 2019 1:26 pm
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| Noah Miller wrote: |
| Tuner gears can wear, especially when they're that old, but most tuning problems actually stem from the strings binding at the nut and/or bridge. Before swapping out hardware, I'd make sure the slots are filed large enough for the strings in question and try adding a bit of graphite as lubricant. |
I never thought to check for binding at the bridge, I suppose that could have some effect on things (but not as much as the nut end). |
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Michael Miller
From:
Virginia
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Posted 2 Oct 2019 5:36 am
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My understanding is that many older tuners do not have the gear ratio of modern sets (ie., less precise). I prefer 15:1 or higher. This might be a factor.
Last edited by Michael Miller on 2 Oct 2019 12:20 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Jeff Highland
From:
New South Wales, Australia
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Posted 2 Oct 2019 12:12 pm
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2 or 3 cents is actually quite reasonable. The string will go a bit higher or lower in pitch depending on how hard it is plucked.
With vintage tuners there is often a bit of freeplay in the gears so it is important to always tune UP to the note. If you overshoot, go back down and come up. Never try to tune down to the note. |
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Lee Holliday
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 3 Oct 2019 1:06 am
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Whilst I have the camera out does anyone recognise these old lollipops???
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Denny Turner
From:
Oahu, Hawaii USA
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Posted 3 Oct 2019 4:20 am
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| Quote: |
| ...it is important to always tune UP to the note. If you overshoot, go back down and come up. Never try to tune down to the note. |
Yessir, ...tuning downward is probably the most common cause of tuning problems when there's not much if anything wrong with the tuners; Especially when tuners are old and well worn.
Ever-since early in gear-type tuners history, a cam-lock geometry was / is built into the gears. The cam "lock" (mechanical grip) occurs by the gears snugging up against each other against the string's tension as the tuner tunes the string UPward, ...and loosens that gear grip as the tuner / gears are "tuned" downward. Thus always tune a string UPward from an initial point being a bit flat; And if you overshoot a bit sharp, you can often "gently" stretch the string back down to pitch (or flat and ready to tune upward again) which will often also tighten the cam-lock grip even more as an additional benefit.
_________________
Aloha,
Denny T~
http://www.dennysguitars.com/
Please help support humanity:
http://www.redcross.org/en/aboutus |
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David DeLoach
From:
Tennessee, USA
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Posted 4 Oct 2019 5:14 am
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Are better quality tuners with modern gear ratios available for these vintage lap steels which would fit in the original tuners place without having to alter the instrument?
If so, I think I'd consider that - and keep the original tuners in the event I ever sold the steel and the buyer wanted the original tuners. |
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Michael Miller
From:
Virginia
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Posted 4 Oct 2019 5:41 am
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| David DeLoach wrote: |
Are better quality tuners with modern gear ratios available for these vintage lap steels which would fit in the original tuners place without having to alter the instrument?
If so, I think I'd consider that - and keep the original tuners in the event I ever sold the steel and the buyer wanted the original tuners. |
I have had a good experience on several older guitars with the Golden Age line of tuners; well-made and reasonably priced: direct drop in for some 3-on-a-plate.
https://www.stewmac.com/Hardware_and_Parts/Tuning_Machines/
Last edited by Michael Miller on 4 Oct 2019 1:30 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Landon Jarrel
From:
Space
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Posted 4 Oct 2019 8:22 am
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| Noah Miller wrote: |
| Tuner gears can wear, especially when they're that old, but most tuning problems actually stem from the strings binding at the nut and/or bridge. Before swapping out hardware, I'd make sure the slots are filed large enough for the strings in question and try adding a bit of graphite as lubricant. |
This is especially true for guitars that have large angles between the tuner post and the nut. |
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Bill Sinclair
From:
Waynesboro, PA, USA
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Posted 4 Oct 2019 8:50 am
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Those Golden Age look great but I didn't care for them on my bakelite Academy (student Rickenbacker) guitar. I had the same problem with them that David describes with his vintage guitars. I replaced them with the individual Grover open tuners that Stewmac sells. 18:1 ratio, very smooth operation with a vintage look and only a couple bucks more than the Golden Age. I think they're my go to from now on. |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 4 Oct 2019 8:57 am
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It's a funny thing with tuners, I was in the process of redoing a ZB and wanted to replace the tuners.
They were a fairly common brand of tuners but nobody in the US stocked that particular model.
I had to order them directly from Germany. 
Erv |
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