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Topic: MSA 4 raises on a 2 raise changer question. |
Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
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Posted 16 Feb 2006 1:04 pm |
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Tell me if this will work.
If you have a typical 70s model MSA guitar with the 2/2 changer and you need to raise one string more than 2 times and you do not need to lower that string, is it possible to just lock the lowering section together with the raising section to turn both sections into a raise only situation ala 4/0.
I know that the return spring will have to be addressed.
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Jim Eaton
From:
Santa Susana, Ca
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Posted 16 Feb 2006 1:15 pm
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Tom Bradshaw made a little device that will convert a "lower" to a "raise" on this type of MSA changer. A small "L" shaped block of aluminum that is pulled by the lower finger and makes contact with and then pulls the raise finger. Do a search of the forum and I'm sure you will find more info on it.
Mike Perlowin (SP sorry mike) has the issue of Toms newsletter that has a drawing of it and will probably jump in here soon.
JE:-)>
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Emmons D10 8/4 P/P -75'
Fessenden SD-10 3/5
Zum SD-12 7/5 - 91'
76'Session 400
86'Nashville 400
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Steven Black
From:
Gahanna, Ohio, USA
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Posted 16 Feb 2006 4:31 pm
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| gee, I just got the diagram the other day on how this is done, really simple thing to add on to the MSA with 2/2, I wish I did not have thrown it away. |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 16 Feb 2006 6:16 pm
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I HAD the diagram, and still may, but offhand I don't know where it is. But it is my opinion that one needs a machine shop to make Tom Bradshaw's devises. Better to buy them from Tom, who has a stash of them already made.
Tom's devises will convert a lower to a raise, allowing 3 raises and one lower, (and vice versa) but I don't think it will give you 4 raises. In order to get that 4th raise, you'll have to use one rod on 2 different pedals with tuning collers. This does not affect the playablity at all, but it makes those changes extremely difficult to tune.
Hey Jim E, no need to apologise, you spelled my name correctly. Of course if you feel guilty and want to make a contribution to the millennium fund to ease your conscience.....
[This message was edited by Mike Perlowin on 16 February 2006 at 06:21 PM.] |
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Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
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Posted 16 Feb 2006 11:38 pm
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I only need 3 raises. I was referring to 4 raises only if you locked the raises and lowers together.
Anybody else have that diagram??? |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 17 Feb 2006 7:49 am
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| Bill, are you actually raising to 3 different notes, or are you just raising the same string with 3 different pedals? |
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Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
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Posted 17 Feb 2006 8:16 am
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Same string three different pedals on a custom tuning. Any suggestion? (besides buying another guitar!)
Somebody did email me some pics awhile back of a set up for an extra pull but it was a bit complicated to make.
What about using an existing rod as a "host" and "piggybacking" another rod onto it and use the "slop" that is in the rod/knee movement to activate a pull. If a 1/2 step pull was in conjunction with a full step pull then it might could be done. A simple rectangle of aluminum with two holes drilled lengthwise with two set screws to lock down to the rod would get you another rod attached to the host rod. That could hook up to another knee lever. If you had the 1/2 step stop tuned at the knee against a strong spring then you could have a firm stop for the 1/2 step and then enough play in the spring for the full step pull to continue on another knee or floor.
Just thinking out loud. Surely someone has tried this.[This message was edited by Bill Hatcher on 17 February 2006 at 08:17 AM.] |
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Jim Eaton
From:
Santa Susana, Ca
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Posted 17 Feb 2006 8:29 am
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If Tom has them for sale by all means get his! It will take 5 min's to install and they work like a dream. I have 2 of them on an SD-12 MSA 2/2 guitar that were on it when I got it.
Mike, are we going to have to wait until you get your new MSA before you'll set up this years P-Jam?????
JE:-))))))> |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 17 Feb 2006 8:32 am
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Bill, Tom's devises really are tha answer to your situation. I have them on both my guitars, and they work perfectly. I will look for the drawing, but as I said, you need a machine shop to make them.
I called Tom to ask if he has any available (I'm sure he does.) He was out so I left a message on his answering machine.[This message was edited by Mike Perlowin on 17 February 2006 at 08:34 AM.] |
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Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
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Posted 17 Feb 2006 9:23 am
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Mike. How much are these from Tom??
I do have a milling machine and a lathe, so making things is not a problem, but if the cost is reasonable then it is easier to buy them. |
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Al Marcus
From:
Cedar Springs,MI USA (deceased)
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Posted 17 Feb 2006 10:13 am
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Bill-It would seem easiest and best way to do this with no machining or extra rods, is to get 3 or 4 Sho-Bud barrell tuners.
You can get a Sho bud rod for that string or better yet get one from John Coop. You can get all your pulls on that one raise rod.
In fact you can do this to most any guitar that do not have at least Triple Raise\Lower
Tune it on the end as usual, EXcept, hold the pedal down while tuning. Believe me, Bill, I have done it on past MSA"s and it WORKS......good luck...al 
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My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/
[This message was edited by Al Marcus on 17 February 2006 at 10:19 AM.] |
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Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
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Posted 17 Feb 2006 10:25 am
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| Al, with your experience and your longevity in the music/steel guitar business I am not surprised that you have done this! Thanks for the tip. Others will probably see this thread and can use the info shared here on this topic. |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 17 Feb 2006 10:52 am
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The Sho bud tuning collars (which I mentioned earlier) work very will once they are tuned, but tuning them is itself a bit of a hassle. Tom's devices are easier to deal with.
The advantage of the tuning collars is that you can use an infinate number of them for more than 3 pulls. Tom's unit only allows for one conversion.
The advantage of Tom's devise is that once they are installed, you tune the rods normally.
I'll call Tom again and bug him about this.
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Bill Ford
From:
Graniteville SC Aiken
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Posted 17 Feb 2006 12:25 pm
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Bill,
I found what you're looking for after looking about a week. I will email to you marked "msa changer thingie #1,& #2"they will be 111k, and 115k in size.
Bill Ford....ugl_trk@yahoo.com |
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Chris Grotewohl
From:
Kansas City (Roeland Park)
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Posted 17 Feb 2006 1:06 pm
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| Bill, Can you email the pics also for my MSA. Thanks Chris cgrotewohl@kc.rr.com |
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Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
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Posted 17 Feb 2006 1:41 pm
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Thanks so much to Mike and Bill and Tom Bradshaw for their assistance in this. This is a pretty neat trick for MSA players who want to keep them working and need to expand the tuning possibilities.
Mike P. has offered to send me one of these to use for a pattern to make one. How nice is that!!![This message was edited by Bill Hatcher on 17 February 2006 at 01:42 PM.] |
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Bill Ford
From:
Graniteville SC Aiken
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Posted 17 Feb 2006 4:51 pm
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Bill H, and Chris,
I scanned the page in two sections so the file would not be so large, if you have problems, email me and I will try to break the page into smaller sections. It was scanned full size. If anyone else needs a copy, I will be glad to send them.
BTW Mike P..it was mentioned in the article that these parts were made for you initially.
Bill, and Chris..I sent you a better copy..if this one is iffy, email me your snailmail ad, and I will send you a direct scan.
Bill[This message was edited by Bill Ford on 17 February 2006 at 05:29 PM.] |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 17 Feb 2006 6:09 pm
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| Quote: |
| Mike P..it was mentioned in the article that these parts were made for you initially. |
I remember. Tom and I were talking about installing triple raises on a double raise guitar, and he came up with the idea of how to do it. I still can't find the article, but I found an extra one of devises.
Hey Bill, once you make or have the inserts made, installing them is a little tricky. As I recall, the article gave instruction on how to do it. You might have to take the guitar to your local repair person.
Once they're installed, they work perfectly, never need maintenence, and last forever.
Tom really got it right. |
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Chris Grotewohl
From:
Kansas City (Roeland Park)
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Posted 17 Feb 2006 7:09 pm
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| Thank You Bill, The 2nd pic works great..Chris |
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Chris Grotewohl
From:
Kansas City (Roeland Park)
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Posted 17 Feb 2006 7:26 pm
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After looking at this I could probably make one but it would take time and probably wouldn't work. The enlongated hole would be the challenge. It would be nice to have this for the 1rst string to a g#. I can get it now with exteme travel with my RKR plus a little muscle. I raise he 2nd and 6th with it also, but the 1rst is the culprit. It looks cool and I'll never get rid of my MSA..Thanks, Chris
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Tom Gorr
From:
Three Hills, Alberta
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Posted 20 Feb 2006 5:14 pm
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| I sawed out the back of a standard MSA changer, and it worked great. |
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Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
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Posted 20 Feb 2006 5:42 pm
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Would you elaborate on "sawing the back" out of the MSA changer? Surely you must be speaking of opening up the back of the guitar where the rods go through. Did you change out the raise lower sections on your changer to ones with more than 2/2 capability?
You have a picture of this? |
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Tom Gorr
From:
Three Hills, Alberta
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Posted 20 Feb 2006 6:14 pm
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| I just sawed the back of a hole in a standard MSA changer, used a MSA Barrel for the modified changer to hook into - and it worked great. |
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