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Topic: C Pedal |
Bobby Nelson
From:
North Carolina, USA
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Posted 1 Sep 2019 3:20 am |
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Here's an observation from a newer player trying to learn the pedals and levers. A while back, I read a thread that said the guy couldn't find much use for the C pedal, and was considering using it for something else. I couldn't disagree more strongly, as a little over a year into this, I'm finding that, I can get most of the usual pedal steel sounds using the AB pedals. However, the BC combination, with mixed use of strings one, two (are they called the "chromatic" strings?), and 3, offers some really interesting harmonic coloring, especially when modulating to a 4 chord. Most of this I stumbled upon trying to figure out why John Hughey's approach to inversions sounded so interesting.
I'm sure you older hands at this are laughing going "we could've told you this years ago" but, for me, it's one of those little revelations on this amazing instrument that keeps me wanting more.
For you newer guys like me, I can say that Buddy Charleton has given me a real good idea of what can be accomplished with A&B pedal combinations, and that a study of Buddy Emmons and John Hughey has opened up the possibilities that aren't quite so obvious (especially with B&C pedals, knee levers, and different string combinations), and a study of Jimmy Day, has given me a picture into using the lower strings for endless beautiful chord colorings.
And, that concludes the observations of a rookie, about a years and a few months into this thing we love so much.
Last edited by Bobby Nelson on 1 Sep 2019 10:26 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Bobby Nelson
From:
North Carolina, USA
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Posted 1 Sep 2019 3:25 am
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1:47 of this song, is a very good example of what I'm looking at here. Tinkering with this lick has led me to a whole new look at the left end (Day)of the pedal board for me, although, it can also be done, and probably was, w/AB pedals, and the D lever (I found that out after messing with the B&C).
https://youtu.be/FyKQ_EWrVwg?list=PLDIG6OVJm7ZAD9IfBw0m1lR3KNUb_TkFN |
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Roger Rettig
From:
Naples, FL
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Posted 1 Sep 2019 6:18 am
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What a great record!!! Is that Mr Hughey?
_________________
Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 1 Sep 2019 6:29 am
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| Roger Rettig wrote: |
| What a great record!!! Is that Mr Hughey? |
Yup.
Can someone shed some light as to how that lick is played.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Gene Tani
From:
Pac NW
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Posted 1 Sep 2019 8:19 am
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Yup, really great playing
I think one (the?) most important learning tasks is to get a mental model and muscle memory of the chords available w/3 levers/3 pedals:
I-IV-V
ii and iii
flat 7,
6th, 9th
sus 4
etc
_________________
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Greg Cutshaw
From:
Corry, PA, USA
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Posted 1 Sep 2019 9:45 am
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I posted a section of tabs on the 3rd pedal uses. Then I realized that I had missed so many of the uses of this pedal that I just gave up updating the possible sounds. Here's a sample:
http://www.gregcutshaw.com/Tab/Tab11.html |
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Bobby Nelson
From:
North Carolina, USA
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Posted 1 Sep 2019 10:24 am
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| Quote: |
| Can someone shed some light as to how that lick is played. |
Richard, the way I originally figured it out, was to play the 5 chord w/AB down, and, while moving backwards to the 4 chord in half steps, alternate between the 3 & 4 string, and the 2 & 3 string, in a backward sequence (hope that makes sense). But, then, I realized that it was easier (and probably the way Hughey did it) to just hit the 5 chord w/AB pedals, then AB & D lever it on the way backwards. Again, I hope that makes a lick of sense haha. I don't write, or much read tab, as numbers and graphs and figures and such kind of boggle my brain and give me mental blocks and frustration - it's much easier for me to pick things out by ear.
As always with me, figuring it out is the way easy part of it - doing it with precision and accuracy is a whole 'nother ball park!
Last edited by Bobby Nelson on 1 Sep 2019 10:46 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Bobby Nelson
From:
North Carolina, USA
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Posted 1 Sep 2019 10:35 am
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Greg Cutshaw wrote:
| Quote: |
| so many of the uses of this pedal |
I couldn't agree more Greg. The guys who put it there really knew what they were doing, in my humble opinion. I think the C pedal, and the 1st & 2nd strings, can be a little like voodoo when you start out - they just don't make a lot of sense. But, as I have gotten further along, I have had more "aha!" moments with them, and they have kicked my curiosity for more into high gear. |
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Bobby Nelson
From:
North Carolina, USA
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Greg Cutshaw
From:
Corry, PA, USA
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Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
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Posted 1 Sep 2019 9:35 pm
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| One year down. ðŸ‘Way to go, Bobby!👠|
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Ian Worley
From:
Sacramento, CA
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Posted 1 Sep 2019 11:14 pm
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| I don't think Jimmy Day even had a C pedal yet at the time he recorded City Lights, that was ~'57-ish, early days. Who knows the definitive history of the C pedal? |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 2 Sep 2019 12:08 am
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I'm not a heavy C Pedal user,never have been. But when I use it for " expression " in phrasing, I know it ! Its possible nobody else knows but I do and thats all that matters !
Couldn't imagine not having it !
Nice thread Bobby ! 
_________________
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Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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Bobby Nelson
From:
North Carolina, USA
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Posted 2 Sep 2019 12:38 am
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The way I hear the solo in City Lights, is some pretty cool work with the B&C, but I'm certainly no authority. Jimmy Day had his own way of phrasing things that, to me, were not always quite so obvious, but always voiced with an advanced harmonic sense. I surely can't say what he was actually doing, only how I cipher it out for me, and the wide range of the high note, and relatively short range of the low note leads me to the B&C pedal. I have it in the key of Bb, and, being an old non-pedal guy, he could well be doing bar slants to get this range I'm hearing.
Last edited by Bobby Nelson on 2 Sep 2019 12:44 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 2 Sep 2019 12:44 am
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I posted elsewhere about how the C pedal got partly usurped by the F lever when it arrived. For example, it's a more convenient way to play a scale in thirds on 3&4 (although it doesn't sound as good as B&C).
I feel I should learn more about the C pedal, but the music I'm called upon to play doesn't require it and I spend most of my practice time on the overlap between the B6/E9 on my uni.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Bobby Nelson
From:
North Carolina, USA
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Posted 2 Sep 2019 12:47 am
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| Ian, I'm not sure, but a uni (12?) would for sure be different than a 10 string wouldn't it? I bet a lot of things are done differently on it. |
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Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
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Posted 2 Sep 2019 6:19 am
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I’m too lazy to tab out my C pedal “discoveriesâ€, but there’s the obvious minor chord on 6B-5-4C-3B (add in string 2 for a m6 or m7b5 chord), the unison on 4C-1, the 6th and 3rd dyads on 6B-4C and 4C-3B, a major inversión on 6B-4C-2(D lower 1/2), a 13th on 7G-6B-5C-4C, a low add9 on 6-5C-4C (or high add 9 on 3), and one I’m not really sure what to call, but I think it’s just a 9th on 10-7-6B-5C-4C-2, which is just an extension of the basic minor chord but with a low root on 10 and major 3rd on string 2, making it a 9th chord a 4th above the basic minor, as in ii-V9... 5C-4C-3 can also be a sus4.
I have been having great fun lately resolving the 4C-1 unison to 4E-1 for a nice minor 3rd dyad, leaving the E lower engaged and just pumping the C. That’s probably the a-ha of the century so far for me 🤠|
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 2 Sep 2019 3:21 pm
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| Bobby Nelson wrote: |
| Ian, I'm not sure, but a uni (12?) would for sure be different than a 10 string wouldn't it? I bet a lot of things are done differently on it. |
Bobby, the action of the C pedal is exactly the same as on E9. It's down around the 9th string that things are different.
Most E9 players can fake some C6 by lowering the Es (B6) or with A&B down (A6). All a uni does is make it less fake and provide the missing low strings.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs
Last edited by Ian Rae on 3 Sep 2019 3:04 am; edited 4 times in total |
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Bobby Nelson
From:
North Carolina, USA
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Posted 3 Sep 2019 1:12 am
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| Oh, OK Ian. That's interesting. I'm still trying to wrestle with 10 strings. |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 3 Sep 2019 3:07 am
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Wrestling is a fine sport - keep it up!
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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