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Topic: Odd overtones above 12th fret |
Bobby Nelson
From:
North Carolina, USA
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Posted 18 Aug 2019 9:20 am |
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I've kind of hit on this before, but here goes again: I'm playing a year old MSA with an Alumitone PU through a 73 Twin with K-120s, which produces a wonderful tone - until I turn the amp to stage volume, and get past the 12th fret on the high (3rd & 4th, say) strings. And then, I get these odd overtones like you might here from an old Octavia, as if the overtones are clashing with each other and trying to overtake the actual notes being played. This takes place when I get past 2 1/2 with the volume. If I play a 3 note chord up there, it is even worse.
Anyone got an idea on how I can make this go away? |
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Glenn Demichele
From:
(20mi N of) Chicago Illinois, USA
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Posted 18 Aug 2019 9:40 am
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Do you have the master all the way up?
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 18 Aug 2019 9:47 am
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Tubes would be my first thought.
Whether its a 12AX7, 6L6, etc???
Have you tried the other channel? I assume you are using the "Vibrato" channel so try the "Normal" channel and see if there is a change. |
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Bobby Nelson
From:
North Carolina, USA
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Posted 18 Aug 2019 10:04 am
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Yup. The master is all the way up.
Well Jack, one thing I did notice, is that when I set the amp back up in here a couple weeks ago, I plugged into the #1 jack on the vibrato channel. Plugging it into #2 is a step in the right direction, but still doesn't make it go away totally. Then I tried the normal channel, with the same settings on the vol and tone controls, and got the same results. Do you think maybe one of the preamp tubes does not like the steel? All of the tube are relatively new, or tested as working well. The 6L6s are a matched set of JJs (I think), but they are a matched set regardless of what brand they are.
Also, do you know anything about pulling the 1st preamp tube out? I've heard that will effect the tone on the vibrato channel as well, and would be fine with me as I never use that channel.
Last edited by Bobby Nelson on 18 Aug 2019 10:13 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Bobby Nelson
From:
North Carolina, USA
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Posted 18 Aug 2019 10:11 am
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| One other thing: I am running a Matchbox before the Hilton it gives it some extra bite I've become very fond of. I don't set the gain very high at all, only one quarter open (9 oclock), and I set the tone at 3/4 open (3 oclock). |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Posted 18 Aug 2019 10:15 am
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Are the overtones in a high register, or are they low growly tones that seem to head in the opposite direction of your playing?
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www.RonstadtRevue.com
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Last edited by Jim Cohen on 18 Aug 2019 10:39 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Bobby Nelson
From:
North Carolina, USA
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Posted 18 Aug 2019 10:18 am
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| Low and growly, almost percussive. Much lower than the notes being played. |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Posted 18 Aug 2019 10:22 am
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I think that's called "harmonic interference" or "harmonic distortion". But not to worry; it stops when you die. 
_________________
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www.RonstadtRevue.com
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Last edited by Jim Cohen on 18 Aug 2019 10:38 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Bobby Nelson
From:
North Carolina, USA
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Posted 18 Aug 2019 10:23 am
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| Haha! That's comforting. But is there a way to clear it up before I die? |
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Bobby Nelson
From:
North Carolina, USA
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Posted 18 Aug 2019 10:24 am
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| I'm fairly positive it's coming from the amp, and not my ears. |
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Bobby Nelson
From:
North Carolina, USA
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Posted 18 Aug 2019 10:29 am
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| The thing is, I've heard guys saying that the Twins sweet spot is between 5 and 7 on the vol control. Being new to the Twin Reverb, as it was way too loud for the style of 6 string I played, I cannot say. But, that sounds about right for a Fender. This starts out at about 3 on this amp. |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Bobby Nelson
From:
North Carolina, USA
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Posted 18 Aug 2019 10:31 am
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Thanks for the help Jim.  |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Craig A Davidson
From:
Wisconsin Rapids, Wisconsin USA
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Posted 18 Aug 2019 10:36 am
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| You might have too much preamp. Plug from just the Hilton to the amp. Set your amp from left to right in the vibrato channel: bright off, 5,3,9,5,4 |
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Bobby Nelson
From:
North Carolina, USA
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Posted 18 Aug 2019 10:54 am
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| I'll try it Craig. It's quite different to what I'm doing now: Bright on,3,5,3,4,3 |
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Bobby Nelson
From:
North Carolina, USA
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Posted 18 Aug 2019 11:02 am
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| No, it still does it, but the tone became very boxy, boomey and undesirable to me. |
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Tim Whitlock
From:
Colorado, USA
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Posted 18 Aug 2019 11:48 am
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| I get the same effect with my Fender 1000 pedal steel. Seems to be more or less worse depending on the amp I'm using, so I have concluded it's an artifact of the guitar. But I get less of it through my Twin Reverb. Try your steel with different amps and see if you still hear it. |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 18 Aug 2019 1:54 pm
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| Tubes, Tubes, Tubes |
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Bobby Nelson
From:
North Carolina, USA
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Posted 18 Aug 2019 2:22 pm
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Thanks for your constructive reply Tim, if I get a chance I'll try it through My NV and see what comes of it.
Seriously Jim, if asking a question about something that may have been discussed on the forum before is giving you pains, then why not move on and not reply at all. With the very limited time I have to spare, I try to spend it practicing, not searching 20 yrs of forum posts to find something that I'm not even sure what it's called. I just thought someone may have experienced this problem, and had a quick answer for it, or a steer in the right direction. Sorry to have wasted our precious time - thanks for wasting mine. |
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Bobby Nelson
From:
North Carolina, USA
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Posted 18 Aug 2019 2:24 pm
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| Thanks Jack. I'm starting to think that may be the issue. I'm going to talk to my amp guy about experimenting with different ones, and maybe even different manufacturers. He is a great tube amp guy, but I don't think he's ever dealt with a steel guitar being played through one. |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Posted 18 Aug 2019 2:26 pm
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Bobby, I think you misunderstood me. I wasn't reproaching you, just trying to offer what I thought might get you some faster answers while you're waiting for folks to respond to this thread. Rather than "seriously", perhaps I should have written, "all kidding aside", as that is what I meant. Sorry for any offense.
_________________
www.JimCohen.com
www.RonstadtRevue.com
www.BeatsWalkin.com |
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Bobby Nelson
From:
North Carolina, USA
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Posted 19 Aug 2019 12:30 am
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| OK Jim, I'm sorry if I took it the wrong way. I was trying to avoid this, but I think I'm going to have to take the whole rig to my amp guy, and diagnose it, and maybe try different tubes at his shop. |
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Bill Terry
From:
Bastrop, TX
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Posted 19 Aug 2019 4:58 am
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This may not be a 'thing' with a PSG, but I used to do minor electric guitar repair and setup in a music store about a million years ago. A common thing we saw on Strats; if the neck pickup was adjusted too close to the strings (something owners did a LOT for some reason), you get artificial (false) harmonics caused by the magnet affecting the string oscillation, i.e. creating a node where one didn't naturally fall. This was especially noticeable on the lower strings up above the 10-12th fret, and at higher volumes.
You could eliminate the problem by moving the bass side of the PU away from the strings a bit, i.e. lowering it.
I've never heard this on a PSG, and I don't know anything about Alumitone PUs, but the effect you describe is exactly what it sounded like. Another thought, could it be some sort of mechanical feedback through the body <-> pickup? Those sorts of things tend to get worse with higher volume. |
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