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Topic: Emmons push pull playability |
Johnie King
From:
Tennessee, USA
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Posted 5 Aug 2019 7:29 am |
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How many know that a push pull properly set up can play as well as any all pull? Actually I prefer the feel of the pedal action on a push pull.
An rarely do u have to tune the knees or pedals just touch up the open tuning an your set to go.
Just something To consider if you want tone an playability. |
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Justin Emmert
From:
Greensboro, NC
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Posted 5 Aug 2019 8:17 am
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| Switching back an forth between all pull and push pull, you feel like the PP is slower, but once you get used to it, there really is no difference. |
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Johnie King
From:
Tennessee, USA
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Posted 5 Aug 2019 9:00 am
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Justin your right.
I find that some all pull steels that you have to push hard at the very end of the pull to feel the stop no mater how you set them up. Know there are some brand all pull steels work very well. On a push pull that’s correctly set up its a joy to here a click when the pedal pull hits the stop.
I wish I had known this 50 years ago!! |
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Brett Lanier
From:
Madison, TN
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Posted 5 Aug 2019 9:26 am
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| One thing that's rarely said about push pulls is that the lowers are quicker than with an all pull. The scissor action reversing with spring tension that makes a lower possible on an all pull is a bit slower than the push rod on an Emmons pushing the finger back. Less resistance on the knee lever too. |
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Patrick Huey
From:
Nacogdoches, Texas, USA
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Posted 5 Aug 2019 10:08 am Re: Emmons push pull playability
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| Johnie King wrote: |
How many know that a push pull properly set up can play as well as any all pull? Actually I prefer the feel of the pedal action on a push pull.
An rarely do u have to tune the knees or pedals just touch up the open tuning an your set to go.
Just something To consider if you want tone an playability. |
Johnnie
I have Junior Knight’s ‘95 pre RP Mullen that Mickey Adams has gone over twice since built and it’s action is smooth as any all pull made..I also have played a ‘74 Emmons that was built by Bryan Adams w/ D10 9p 10 K. THAT P/P Bryan built came as close as any steel I’ve ever seen to my Mullen ease of action and playability wise and had the greatest P/P tone I’ve EVER heard! And it’s owner, Dave Mitchell, never had to tune it! Gigged it regularly! It never went out of tune!
To this day I am still kicking myself for not having the money to buy it when Dave had it for sale
_________________
Pre RP Mullen D10 8/7, Zum 3/4, Carter S-10 3/4, previous Cougar SD-10 3/4 & GFI S-10 3/4, Fender Steel King, 2 Peavey Session 500's, Peavey Nashville 400, Boss DD-3, Profex-II, Hilton Digital Sustain, '88 Les Paul Custom,Epiphone MBIBG J-45, Fender Strat & Tele's, Takamine acoustics, Marshall amps, Boss effects, Ibanez Tube Screamer, and it all started with an old cranky worn out Kay acoustic you could slide a Mack truck between the strings and fretboard on!! |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 5 Aug 2019 10:23 am
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| Quote: |
| How many know that a push pull properly set up can play as well as any all pull? |
Well Johnie, owning both, I have to say that I really can't agree. I know some players still play them and love them, and the push-pulls do have a great sound. I know some players who still prefer nothing else, but they are "spongy" feeling and imprecise when compared to a good all-pull pedal steel. There just aren't enough timing adjustments there to make it really precise. The springs (that many call "shock springs") are there to provide some equilibrium in timing the pulls because you have, at most, only two holes in the bell cranks. And although they can help the action when properly adjusted, their mere presence means that the action just can't be as positive and precise. On later models, Emmons guitars went to 14-hole pullers because some players, (not me by the way) are sticklers for precise timing. Now, we can argue the point until the cows come home, and I respect your opinion greatly...but it is an opinion. The one fact, however, is that when you study the design and the adjustment capabilities of both, the push-pull comes up as being mechanically inferior to a modern all-pull. But it's still a great-sounding guitar.
A push-pull could still be made, any patents have long since expired. I'm dubious, though, as to whether or not it could be profitably re-introduced, as the market seems now to overwhelmingly prefer an all-pull design. |
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Glenn Suchan
From:
Austin, Texas
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Posted 5 Aug 2019 11:23 am
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| Donny Hinson wrote: |
| Quote: |
| How many know that a push pull properly set up can play as well as any all pull? |
Well Johnie, owning both, I have to say that I really can't agree. I know some players still play them and love them, and the push-pulls do have a great sound. I know some players who still prefer nothing else, but they are "spongy" feeling and imprecise when compared to a good all-pull pedal steel. There just aren't enough timing adjustments there to make it really precise. The springs (that many call "shock springs") are there to provide some equilibrium in timing the pulls because you have, at most, only two holes in the bell cranks. And although they can help the action when properly adjusted, their mere presence means that the action just can't be as positive and precise. |
Hi, Donny. I've owned three Emmons P/P's; an S10, an S12 and a D10 in that order. All were used when I received them. On the days that I received both the S12 and the D10 I promptly took them to the late Bobby Bowman to be adjusted and to have minor copedant changes done. When they came back to me the playability and feel was like night and day compared to the factory feel of the pedals and knees. I attribute this to the fact that Bobby removed all the 'timing' springs (or shock springs, as you call them). This necessitated the patience to precisely adjust timing via the set collars on the push and pull rods.
Since after properly adjusted, P/P's rarely need much in the way of changer adjustments, these precisely timed rods not only allow the player to feel the now tight (not spongy) changes with positive stops, they also make the actuation of pedals and knee levers as easy and smooth as an all pull guitar. I know because I've also owned a wonderful Sierra "Crown" series S14 guitar.
I still own the D10 (my only PSG). Bobby did his magic on that guitar in November of 2003 and it still plays as smooth and accurate as the best all-pull guitars, and it has the Emmons P/P sound and a feel in my hands that my Sierra never could produce.
Keep on pickin'!
Glenn
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Steelin' for Jesus |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 5 Aug 2019 11:38 am
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I own both and play both regularly. I typically don't compare them and don't care to. I also have several Telecasters. While they are not equal, they are all excellent players, to me.
Both the PP and the ALL PULL ( Legrande II) are fine players, not the same, but fine just the same. They are not the same Instruments and I don't expect them to be.
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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richard burton
From:
Britain
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Posted 5 Aug 2019 1:48 pm
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For a push-pull to play anywhere near as easy as an all-pull,
you have to ditch the shock springs and the pedal return springs, and then get creative with helper springs.
That's what I did nearly 30 years ago, and I've never looked back. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 6 Aug 2019 6:04 am
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Fine for you, Richard.
But not everyone has your mechanical capabilities!  |
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