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Topic: who plays short and long scale? |
Will Slack
From:
Texas, USA
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Posted 30 Jul 2019 10:44 am |
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I started on a 50's Fender Deluxe 8. I didn't even know about short or long scale, but I've loved that guitar, and have since bought a short scale Clinesmith. I have no problem with either guitar, but I am wondering about long scale playing. I've read here on the forum about the pros and cons and various opinions of both. It seems most folks go one way or another. Does anyone regularly switch between both? Or is it somewhat of a handicap to do so?
Also, what are some of the available long scale (medium scale to some) 24.5" guitars? I know of...
-Some stringmasters
-some magnatones
-many of the Clinesmiths
What else? |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 30 Jul 2019 10:54 am
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I have a couple of long scale (26") Stringmasters.
I have no problem playing guitars with varying scales. 
Erv |
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Jeff Mead
From:
London, England
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Posted 30 Jul 2019 11:32 am
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I don't think it makes a huge difference. If you are playing around the 12th fret on a long scale instrument and around the 9th on a short scale one, you'll probably be dealing with similar fret spacings.
It's the nature of the instrument that we adjust to different fret spacings and therefore different scale lengths.
I'd say a long scale instrument is slightly easier to play in tune and a short scale is slightly easier for bar slants but there's not much in it.
I play single, double and quad Stringmasters, Dual Pro and Custom Triple and a Gibson six string - all 22.5" (short) scale.
I also have a frying pan and a pedal steel that are both longer scale and when I play them, I am pretty much unaware of any difference in scale length, |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 30 Jul 2019 11:55 am
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I've always felt that the long the scale, the longer the sustain.
Erv |
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Joe Elk
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 30 Jul 2019 12:16 pm
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I have build 4 steels I use 24 ice scale
Joe Elk Central Ohio |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 30 Jul 2019 12:58 pm
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I have 24" and 25½" pedal guitars and they're no different to play.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Bill Groner
From:
QUAKERTOWN, PA
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Posted 30 Jul 2019 2:17 pm
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| Ian Rae wrote: |
| I have 24" and 25½" pedal guitars and they're no different to play. |
Ian, could you post a picture of your homebuilt keyless? What scale is that one?
You tweaked my interest.
Thanks in advance.
Bill
_________________
Currently own, 6 Groner-tone lap steels, one 1953 Alamo Lap steel, Roland Cube, Fender Champion 40 |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 30 Jul 2019 2:59 pm
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Bill, we're intruding on the "without pedals" section, but here it is -
It's 24" scale because I copied most of the dimensions from an old D10 I had. It ain't pretty, but it sounds ok as far as I remember. I haven't played it for a while as it has a Kline-type changer and I've graduated to all-pull.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Bill Groner
From:
QUAKERTOWN, PA
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Posted 30 Jul 2019 3:15 pm
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Thanks Ian...very nice work. I'll bet it sounds great.
So glad you decided to be a rebel and post on SWOP section. I rarely check the other sections, although I know I should check them more often.
Thanks again........like everything about it.
_________________
Currently own, 6 Groner-tone lap steels, one 1953 Alamo Lap steel, Roland Cube, Fender Champion 40 |
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David Ball
From:
North Carolina High Country
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Posted 30 Jul 2019 4:51 pm
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I like the tone of longer scale steel guitars--strange since I prefer the tone of shorter scale acoustics and banjos. To me, longer scale lengths seem to favor the fundamental tone and lessen the impact of the overtones. More like a piano than a harpsichord, the way I look at it. More strident. Same reason I like the shorter scale acoustics. A bit less strident and maybe fuller in tone.
That said, I have several short scale steels that I love, and playing a short scale guitar certainly didn't hurt Jerry Byrd's tone. Or Sol Hoopii's or.....
Dave |
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Will Slack
From:
Texas, USA
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Posted 30 Jul 2019 7:14 pm
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Thanks for all the input everyone. It seems like most folks have a preference, but it's not a big deal to switch between them.
So what long scale guitars are out there for me to give it a try? Which magnatones are long scale? |
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Steven Paris
From:
Los Angeles
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Posted 30 Jul 2019 9:37 pm
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| Erv Niehaus wrote: |
| I've always felt that the long the scale, the longer the sustain. Erv |
That's what SHE said!!
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Emmons & Peavey |
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Steve Lipsey
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 31 Jul 2019 1:37 pm
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I just got an Oahu Diana, 25", and I'm gloriously happy - it is the same scale as my tricone and Weissenborn, and already feels really comfortable, even when slanting on the lower frets - muscle memory helps!
I had a short-scale magnatone and short-scale MSA Superslide, and while I loved the sound, I just never got comfortable slanting - or even just playing - it is hard enough to adjust slant angle as you move up the neck without also adjusting it for scale length.
And on the short scale, if you like to play above the 12th fret (as I do), those frets are REALLY close together and it is very hard to be accurate...so the loss high up more than makes up for the ease down low, for me.
The Magnatones, by the way, are made in both long and short scale, so be careful about what you buy - I bought a short scale one by mistake...
The Diana has the feel and look of a shorter Les Paul (sunburst finish on solid mahogany), much like the Asher Ben Harper model, with the sound of a great lap steel (string-through Valco pickup). The Tonemaster is similar shape and scale but has a different pickup...
_________________
https://www.lostsailorspdx.com
Williams S10s, Milkman Pedal Steel Mini & "The Amp"
Ben Bonham Resos, 1954 Oahu Diana, 1936 Oahu Parlor |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 31 Jul 2019 2:09 pm
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Reality has just hit - you non-pedal guys slant the bar a lot and I can see how a different scale could easily throw you out.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Jack Hanson
From:
San Luis Valley, USA
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Posted 31 Jul 2019 3:23 pm
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| No big whoop to me. It's a tad more difficult to make bar slants on my 25" scale acoustics than on my 22.5" scale electrics, but not insurmountable. It's basically hand-ear coordination. By the third or fourth measure of music after changing instruments, everything's good. |
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Steve Lipsey
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 31 Jul 2019 3:39 pm
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Hey Jack....can I borrow your hands and ears? Some of us have a harder time of it...and for us, consistency really helps..
I gave up pedal steel, banjo, guitar and short scales just to limit myself to a style and kind of instrument that I might actually know how to play before I shuffle off...have enough variation between lap and dobro to keep me quite busy (and I think they actually complement each other nicely, I use a shared set of techniques for both of them). After all, if those two are enough for Jerry Douglas, etc., I guess they will do for me...
_________________
https://www.lostsailorspdx.com
Williams S10s, Milkman Pedal Steel Mini & "The Amp"
Ben Bonham Resos, 1954 Oahu Diana, 1936 Oahu Parlor |
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Will Slack
From:
Texas, USA
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Posted 31 Jul 2019 8:42 pm
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| Steve, I had seen your threads looking for long scale consistency--they were part of what influenced the question. I might as well try a long scale and learn for myself, I suppose. I do play above the 12th a lot, so perhaps I'll like the extra space. |
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Steve Lipsey
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 31 Jul 2019 9:14 pm
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Will-
I just can relate my experience, but of course many folks are happier with short scale, and others can easily switch between them...and you know better how flexible and capable you are.
But whichever you try, it doesn't cost much to try something else and re-sell it once you have figured out which you prefer...
And we pretty much all do a long search for the ones we really bond with...
_________________
https://www.lostsailorspdx.com
Williams S10s, Milkman Pedal Steel Mini & "The Amp"
Ben Bonham Resos, 1954 Oahu Diana, 1936 Oahu Parlor |
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Andy Volk
From:
Boston, MA
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Posted 1 Aug 2019 3:51 am
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Long scale on acoustics, short (22.5") scale on electrics. Harmonics are a tad less likely to go "thunk" on a long scale, I find.
_________________
Steel Guitar Books! Website: www.volkmediabooks.com |
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Bill Sinclair
From:
Waynesboro, PA, USA
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Posted 1 Aug 2019 4:56 am
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| Andy Volk wrote: |
| Harmonics are a tad less likely to go "thunk" on a long scale, I find. |
That's why I decided to give long scale a try and restored a long scale (26") Stringmaster. I found that my thumb on my left hand would sometimes cramp if I was trying to play 2 fret slants below about the 6th fret. While the harmonics seemed less likely to "thunk", the fret position I was using to place my pick for palm harmonics was significantly different from my 22.5" scale guitars. My brain has enough trouble keeping up with one set of positions so when a fellow forum member wanted to trade for his player-grade Gibson Console Grande, I jumped on it.
Steve makes an excellent point about the accuracy above the 12th fret though. I have enough parts under the bed to build another 26" D8 so I plan to take another shot at it. |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 1 Aug 2019 7:04 am
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When I got my 26" scale, T-8 Stringmaster back in 1954, I didn't know it was harder to make slants on a long scale guitar, I just did it.
Erv |
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Steve Lipsey
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 1 Aug 2019 8:20 am
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Another short scale issue - it not only is harder to accurately hit a note, because even a small distance is a big variation in pitch - but if you press down on the bar even a little bit, you bend the note way up...I ended up bumping my first and second strings to .018 and .020 to have them push back more...
And on split slants, where you have to bend the middle note up, it is a tossup - less pressure needed on short, easier to be accurate on long...
But again, lots of folks prefer short...and watch megan lovell in Larkin Poe - she has no trouble hitting every note perfectly without looking, on her Ric B6 Panda..I think my issue is more one of switching from the scale I've played for many decades on other instruments, pretty much all 25" or very close to that....
_________________
https://www.lostsailorspdx.com
Williams S10s, Milkman Pedal Steel Mini & "The Amp"
Ben Bonham Resos, 1954 Oahu Diana, 1936 Oahu Parlor |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 1 Aug 2019 10:01 am
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Most 6-string lap steels are short scale, right? I have 2 of those. The Roy Smeck (Harmony) measures 22". The Rickenbacker Electro is 22½". Both work well for bar slants.
My Sierra 8-string uses one of their stock pedal steel 24¼" fretboards. Still, with its 7/16" string spacing I've never found bar slants to be a problem.
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Last edited by b0b on 1 Aug 2019 8:49 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Brad Davis
From:
Texas, USA
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Posted 1 Aug 2019 10:36 am
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| I go back and forth between my 22.5 GCG and a couple of 26" long scale SM's. I take a few minutes to adjust and then I'm mostly fine. Used to it was more the difference in string spacing that I was dealing with, but even that I get over quickly now. Chimes on the long scale are great, but over time I can now do just about as well on the GCG. I quickly adjust to the difference in slants, although a few feel near impossible on the long scale. |
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Andy DePaule
From:
Saigon, Viet Nam & Springfield, Oregon
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Posted 1 Aug 2019 3:25 pm I have a long & short scale Clinesmith.
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Hi Will,
I have a long & short scale Clinesmith.
I play equally poorly on both 
Really though, I have no problem going from one to the other.
I find slants difficult on both below the 5th fret and on any steel, but easy above that point.
Got the short scale two years ago and the long scale two months ago.
The only difference is in the tonality between the two tunings.
Thats because the short scale has 3 plain and 5 wound strings while the long scale has 5 plain and 3 wound strings.
Maybe thats also because I use them for different playing and song styles.
The short scale is standard A6th; E C# A F# E C# A F#
The new one is un-standadard E6/9th; Top down F# C# G# E B G# E D Kind of like E9th or E13th with the strings mixed up.
I also have those tunings plus F#9 on my T-8 Clinesmith Console, But I prefer playing the lap steels because I like the wider string spacing better.
Been playing with one of his 7/8" Polymar bars for over a year now and it's become my favorite.
Should we start a Clinesmith Fan Club? Maybe on Farcebook? 
Good luck with yours,
Andy
_________________
Inlaid Star Guitar 2006 by Mark Giles. SD-10 4+5 in E9th; http://luthiersupply.com/instrument-gallery.html
2017 Mullen SD-10, G2 5&5 Polished Aluminum covering. Custom Build for me. Great Steel.
Clinesmith Joaquin Murphy style Aluminum 8 String Lap Steel Short A6th.
Magnatone Jeweltone Series Lap Steel, Circa 1950? 6 String with F#minor7th Tuning.
1956 Dewey Kendrick D-8 4&3, Restoration Project.
1973 Sho~Bud Green SD-10 4&5 PSG, Restoration Project. |
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