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Topic: Fender New Tone Master Deluxe and Twin Reverb amps |
Greg Cutshaw
From:
Corry, PA, USA
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Tim Whitlock
From:
Colorado, USA
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Posted 18 Jul 2019 9:39 am |
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Interesting development but the concept seems to have some obvious flaws. From the description : "...the result is tubeless Twin Reverb (or Deluxe Reverb) tone, volume and dynamics virtually indistinguishable from the all-tube original." Gonna have to hear (and feel) that to believe it.
Why would anyone want a one trick pony when you can get a Mustang and have all the Fender amp models at your disposal? Not that I would, but one of the big attractions of modeling amps is the variety. Also, I have never quite understood the need for attenuation on a solid state amp, where you are not driving tubes to saturation. Can anyone explain that to me? |
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Greg Cutshaw
From:
Corry, PA, USA
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Posted 18 Jul 2019 10:02 am
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| These amps might be a bust but Fender's marketing genius seems to know no limits. I'd like to see scope photos of these amps feeding a real reactive speaker load like what Quilter provided on YouTube for his new 202 amp. |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 18 Jul 2019 12:38 pm
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Using a high-performance 100-watt digital power amp to achieve the headroom and dynamic range of a real vintage Deluxe tube amp.
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Now thats some writing skill ! 
It seems Fender is now competing with Fender , the market is flush with Fender items of all sorts, guitars and amps.
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 18 Jul 2019 3:58 pm
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As I recall, the old Deluxe amps were only 25 watts?  |
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Greg Cutshaw
From:
Corry, PA, USA
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Posted 18 Jul 2019 5:10 pm
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Maybe 22 watts if you don't mind a bit of distortion. The new one has a 5 way switch to select different power levels.
I'm looking at the Fractal Axe III right now. Don't expect it to sound any better than all the awesome steel amps I've owned but my main pre-retirement hobby is experimenting with the latest gear! I'm finding it more fun to play around with equipment and copedants than it ever was playing live gigs except for maybe back in the 60's when local gigs drew 400+ screaming people. |
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Gabriel Edell
From:
Hamilton, Ontario
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Posted 18 Jul 2019 6:56 pm
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| Tony Prior wrote: |
Using a high-performance 100-watt digital power amp to achieve the headroom and dynamic range of a real vintage Deluxe tube amp.
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Now thats some writing skill !
It seems Fender is now competing with Fender , the market is flush with Fender items of all sorts, guitars and amps. |
New Fender's main competitor has always been old Fender. All the old stuff was built to last and much of it is still in use. They have to try to differentiate somehow. . .
Also funny that they're bragging about using a 100 watt amp to replicate the headroom of a 22 watt amp.
_________________
GFI S-10 P U, Moyo Volume, Fender Steel King, Fender 5F4 Super-Amp |
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Godfrey Arthur
From:
3rd Rock
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Posted 18 Jul 2019 7:58 pm
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| Gabriel Edell wrote: |
| New Fender's main competitor has always been old Fender. All the old stuff was built to last and much of it is still in use. They have to try to differentiate somehow. . . |
Yup this is true. But they are going after the noobs who don't want to mess with tubes and the amp is light enough to take on a subway.
And what can be built in China by robots...
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ShoBud The Pro 1
YES it's my REAL NAME!
Ezekiel 33:7 |
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Benjamin Davidson
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Posted 19 Jul 2019 5:55 am
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I see these really becoming common on backlines more than I do serious players.
Player shows up, sees a twin or deluxe, feels familiar enough to gig. Audiance sees a twin or deluxe in the background (wont be able to tell the difference where they are sitting), the sound guys get the input they want, and the house isnt paying for tube amp maintence over the years.
From a business I think it makes since were fender is going with these. Time will tell if it sells, but if one comes into my areas GC I'll be tempted to run my steel through just to get an idea.
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Justice Pro-Lite (9p9k) 10 String D13th Universal Tuning |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 19 Jul 2019 7:02 am
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I have a standing policy: Fender for tubes, Peavey for solid state. 
Erv |
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Greg Cutshaw
From:
Corry, PA, USA
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Posted 19 Jul 2019 8:34 am
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Peavey Classic tube amps are pretty awesome and a great value especially used.
Erv,I thought your rule was own one of everything! |
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James Mayer
From:
back in Portland Oregon, USA (via Arkansas and London, UK)
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Posted 19 Jul 2019 8:38 am
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| Tim Whitlock wrote: |
Why would anyone want a one trick pony when you can get a Mustang and have all the Fender amp models at your disposal? Not that I would, but one of the big attractions of modeling amps is the variety. |
This is what I'm thinking, as well. Maybe this amp has a more powerful processor that is dedicated to one sound so can create a better model.....but it's still a modeler. That means in a few years, a processor will be available that is powerful enough to handle the same job and all the other amps in the Fender range at the same price. And, since the Fender owns the software, of course this assumed more advanced modeling tech will make it to the more budget-friendly Mustang in the next iteration.
Maybe it's just attempt to win over the tube snobbery crowd. You know, the same crowd that uses digital modeler Strymon pedals in front of their tube amp. |
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Michael Butler
From:
California, USA
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Posted 19 Jul 2019 9:04 am
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[quote="James Mayer"]
| Tim Whitlock wrote: |
Maybe it's just attempt to win over the tube snobbery crowd. You know, the same crowd that uses digital modeler Strymon pedals in front of their tube amp. |
i use strymon pedals in front of my tube amps but i certainly wouldn't call it snobbery. i also use logic which has built in pedalboards and amp sounds. i also plug straight into my tube amps. variety is the spice!
play music!
_________________
please see my Snakeskin's Virtual Music Museum below.
http://muscmp.wordpress.com/ |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 19 Jul 2019 9:08 am
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Greg,
Don't I wish! 
Erv |
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Chris Bauer
From:
Nashville, TN USA
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Posted 20 Jul 2019 8:59 am
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To be clear, products like this usually give me hives but I've heard them both and played steel through the Twin. They're pretty remarkable.
My money says that few of us could hear the difference between these and their 'parents' in a blindfold test and those of us who could might still have an interest in getting one because of the things they can do that the originals can't (power switching, connectivity, etc.). Oh, and you can lift the Deluxe with one finger and probably lift the Twin with two.
One can certainly quibble with naming these amps after the originals - and the feel of playing them may be slightly (but only slightly) different - but their sounds are unmistakably like their namesakes. For the sound of a Twin with a combo amp that won't break your back and, though maybe expensive-sounding is still less than a new Twin, I give 'em an enthusiastic thumbs up. |
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Greg Cutshaw
From:
Corry, PA, USA
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Posted 20 Jul 2019 9:46 am
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I was impressed with the reverbs (convolution based). The amp's have that iconic Fender appearance and look great on stage. Thanks for posting your experience with the twin.
The Deluxe output power is switchable from 0.2 to 22 watts. The line out XLR has a level control and switchable cabinet sims (actually flat and 2 sims). Just 23 pounds! The twin weighs only 33 pounds.
It'd be great if Fender would offer a tone stack option for these for pedal steel oriented EQ.
Interesting they still have a standby switch for using the direct out without powering up the power amp.
More info here, including a pedal steel demo near the end):
https://www.premierguitar.com/articles/29142-summer-namm-2019-fender-tone-master-deluxe-reverb-twin-reverb-demos |
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forrest klott
From:
Grand Rapids Mi USA
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Posted 20 Jul 2019 6:23 pm
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| This is pretty interesting. So if the stock speaker in the Deluxe TM is 8 ohm, I’m wondering if you could run a 4 ohm safely and would it have a bit more oomph? |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 21 Jul 2019 1:10 am
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Tube snobbery ? I doubt that's why they made them. So they built a $900 Solid State Deluxe Reverb that looks just like the TUBE 22 watt RI Deluxe Reverb that looks just like the original amps. The RI's and this new model are the same price so we can decide, do I want tubes or do I want discreet components ? $900 competing with $900 . One will suffer the consequences, maybe thats the long range intention.
I'm sure they are gig worthy, but "tube snobbery" has nothing to do with it. I'll stick with my 4 x El84 amps or the 2 x 6L6 platform amps for a majority of gigs. I like the heat they generate !
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website
Last edited by Tony Prior on 21 Jul 2019 2:39 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 21 Jul 2019 1:41 am
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| forrest klott wrote: |
| This is pretty interesting. So if the stock speaker in the Deluxe TM is 8 ohm, I’m wondering if you could run a 4 ohm safely and would it have a bit more oomph? |
Not without seeing and understanding the circuit and the current draw on those output drivers. We cannot confuse Tube amp OT's and output circuits with solid state drivers. Different worlds. Tubes can deal with a higher current draw, solid state components, well, do it and see what happens ! Typically they work , well, until they don't ! Tubes are already hot, don't touch them. Solid state drivers, they are doing everything under the planet to dissipate heat to protect them. Increasing the current draw increases heat, thats totally opposite of what they are trying to prevent .
An amp such as a PV nashville 112 for example, they are already rated at 4 ohms using a 4 ohm speaker. The trick to an amp such as this is to replace the speaker with an 8 ohm'er, the current draw goes the other direction . By how much, who can say but it's not MORE current draw. Now add a hybrid 2nd speaker connection , an 8 ohmer, now two speakers are running at the amp spec of 4 ohms, its back to where it started, which we know is a 4 ohm recommended load as opposed to an 8 ohm load.
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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Bob Carlucci
From:
Candor, New York, USA
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Posted 21 Jul 2019 8:48 am
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meh, don't want.....
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I'm over the hill and hittin'rocks on the way down!
no gear list for me.. you don't have the time...... |
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Bill Moran
From:
Virginia, USA
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Posted 21 Jul 2019 9:19 am
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Fender has been building new solid state stuff for years and years. Everyone comes back to the 60's tube amps. This might just be the new wheel though ? I won't be buying one until I test one.
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Bill |
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Bobby Nelson
From:
North Carolina, USA
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Posted 21 Jul 2019 9:54 am
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| I don't hold my breath waiting for a solid state to run neck and neck in the tone and feel department. That being said, if they could come up with one that does, and is not akin to a boat anchor to haul around, I'd be in. I also have worries about the dependability of solid state. I've seen them do weird things before (SS is the only amp I've ever blown up). I've said it before: My NV 400 is a fabulous sounding amp - until I plug in my Twin. So it basically sits under my table until I try it out every now and again, and then weird little things go on. To Me, SS seem to be a little needy - but, that's just me. |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 22 Jul 2019 7:16 am
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As far as solid state goes, the Webb amp is solid state but it behaves like a tube amp.
When you turn it off, it takes a while for the pilot light to go out, it just fades away like a tube amp.
Erv |
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Rich Upright
From:
Florida, USA
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Posted 27 Jul 2019 11:42 am
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It's not so much the TONE of SS that I don't care for; it's the FEEL. Tubes react more slowly, so you don't have that "pop" when playing 6-string. SS is passable for steel; I have a PV Renown 1-15" that I use for large venue; high volume gigs. In fact I will be using it next weekend for a gig with a "modern" country band, which is basically "bad rock with a cowboy hat", so I need the power & don't play much telecaster with them. But, when I play with MY band (classic country & 60s) I use a PV Classic 30, as SS just doesn't cut it for guitar. I have tried several SS amps; even owned a modeling amp that I got in payment for money owed me; they all promised to faithfully emulate tube tone, which was a crock in that it just can't be done. We can put a man on the moon, but we can't get tube tone,feel, & gain compression from SS.
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A couple D-10s,some vintage guitars & amps, & lotsa junk in the gig bag. |
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Dustin Rigsby
From:
Parts Unknown, Ohio
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Posted 1 Aug 2019 2:34 am
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I just watched the demos on YouTube last night. Pretty impressive sounding to say the least. Don’t know that I’d be a player at that price point. OTOH, I’ve been watching the price of older peavey tube amps go up recently...may be a thing...ymmv
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D.S. Rigsby |
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