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Topic: Picture of Emmons Student Model P/P undercarriage/Hysterisis |
Justin Jardine
From:
Wisconsin, USA
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Posted 17 Jul 2019 1:41 pm |
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Hey everyone,
I recently did a number on my Emmons Student Model Push-Pull trying to shorten the travel of my E levers. Basically I couldn't get them back in tune, and I was also getting some new hysteresis when I would engage my E to F lever because it was pulling slightly on the E to Eb lever and wouldn't rebound correctly (or vice versa, I'm having trouble remembering). So, giving up on reducing the travel, I tried to retrace my steps and get it back to the way it was, in tune and without hysteresis, and now I'm in pretty deep ...
My main question is if anybody has one of these models and could post a picture of their undercarriage for me, particular the E lever tracts. My instrument is from around 1980 I believe, and I'm not sure if they've changed the design much, but I guess anything helps.
Secondly, if anybody has experience with this particular cause of hysteresis, I'm all ears. |
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Jack Hanson
From:
San Luis Valley, USA
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Posted 17 Jul 2019 1:49 pm
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Assuming you raise and lower your Es with LKL & LKR, respectively.
Setup by Clem Schmitz:
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Ian Worley
From:
Sacramento, CA
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Posted 17 Jul 2019 8:20 pm
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| Justin Jardine wrote: |
| ...trying to shorten the travel of my E levers... ...I was also getting some new hysteresis when I would engage my E to F lever... |
Your problem has nothing to do with hysteresis. It sounds like you just removed too much of the necessary slack in the raise pull rods. On a PP, strings that have both a lower and raise require extra slack in the raise rods to allow the full range of movement at the changer between the highest and lowest note. "...trying to shorten the travel of my E levers..." most likely broke this. On a PP, slop is your friend to a certain extent.
Read this post: https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=2823384#2823384, and also the first post in that thread about tuning. That should help you better understand how the PP mechanism works, and how to correct the issue on your git. |
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Justin Jardine
From:
Wisconsin, USA
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Posted 18 Jul 2019 12:59 am
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Wow does that look clean. Good going.
Thanks for the picture, and thanks, Ian, for the tip. I will embrace the slack. |
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Jack Hanson
From:
San Luis Valley, USA
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Posted 18 Jul 2019 4:14 am
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| Justin Jardine wrote: |
| Wow does that look clean. |
Nobody does better work underneath a push/pull than Clem. Don't know where you're at in 'Sconnie, but if you're fairly close to the Twin Cities, it may be worth your while to make the pilgrimage to Crystal. |
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Lynn Stafford
From:
Ridgefield, WA USA
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Posted 18 Jul 2019 7:02 am Picture of Emmons Student Model P/P undercarriage/Hysterisis
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Justin,
I've restored several Emmons GS-10 guitars over the years. Here are a few under carriage photos of one I worked on about four or five years ago. I added the new knee levers and it has a fairly standard Emmons setup. Hopefully these will be of help to you.
Here are a few of the top side, in case you're interested.
_________________
Best regards,
Lynn Stafford
STEEL GUITAR WEST
http://www.steelguitarwest.com
Steel Guitar Technician (Restoration, Set-up, Service and Repair work)
Previous Emmons Authorized Dealer & Service Technician (original factory is now closed)
ZumSteel Authorized Service Technician
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Ken Byng
From:
Southampton, England
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Posted 18 Jul 2019 7:35 am
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Great job by Clem and Lynn on the respective guitars.
After spending time on my push pull recently, there is a limit to the amount that the lever travel can be reduced to on your E levers. As has been previously mentioned by Ian, there must be adequate slack in the raises, and the 4th string in particular has the full and half tone raise and half tone lower. I got my guitar raising and lowering the E strings perfectly, but the travel is a little on the longer side compared to some of my other guitars. Not excessively mind you, and no certainly no worse that my old Pro 111 Sho~Bud.
I have bought some parts from Clem that have made some of my tasks easier, especially his clip-on bell cranks which saves the removal of cross shafts. Clem's half stop device works brilliantly on my E9th Eb to D, and took about 10 minutes to fit.
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Show Pro D10 - amber (8+6), MSA D10 Legend XL Signature - redburst (9+6), Sho-Bud Pro 111 Custom (8+6), Emmons black Push-Pull D10 (8+5), Zum D10 (8x8), Hudson pedal resonator. Telonics TCA-500, Webb 614-E, |
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Jack Hanson
From:
San Luis Valley, USA
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Posted 18 Jul 2019 8:25 am
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What a great looking rosewood Gee Ess, Lynn!
I especially like the Black Rock-style neck. I installed one on my sunburst, and consider it a major upgrade.
ps -- Now you know what I did with the white-lined fretboard I purchased from you a while back. |
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richard burton
From:
Britain
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Posted 18 Jul 2019 11:48 am
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When I first got my push-pull, it was still factory setup, and I quickly realised that I would need to decrease the pedals/levers movement to make it more playable / user friendly.
But, I didn't want the extra pressure that would be required to operate the thing when I had reduced the pedal / lever travel.
So I installed helper springs, which improved playability immensely, and also reduced the necessary slack required to allow lowers |
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