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Topic: My BMI Project Has Arrived |
Dennis Montgomery
From:
Western Washington
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Posted 1 Jun 2019 5:24 pm |
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I mentioned a couple months ago that a friend's father-in-law recently passed and his wife was now ready to let go of his '70's BMI 12 string (and ShoBud Pak-a-Seat). They brought them over today and accepted my offer so I have a new project to work on!
It hasn't been played since the 70's but has been setup in their music room gathering dust...and it's gathered a lot of it 
The mica and pad look great but the undercarriage is filthy and needs a deep clean and lube, it's missing a knee lever, the custom knee lever someone installed on the RKR looks suspicious and might need replacing. Also needs a few new tuning hex nuts, some of the fingers need a fine sanding to get back to smooth, and I expect the changer will need to come off for a nice naphtha solvent bath. The ShoBud Pak-a-Seat is in excellent condition...no rips, tears, or wear of any kind (just dusty). I removed the strings, wiped it down and took some pix.
This is going to be fun!
_________________
Hear my latest album, "Celestial" featuring a combination of Mullen SD12 and Synthesizers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhh6b_xXTx4&list=PLfXm8aXRTFz0x-Sxso0NWw493qAouK
Hear my album, "Armistice" featuring Fender 400 on every song:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLfXm8aXRTFz2Pz_GXhvmjne7lPEtsplyW
Hear my Pedal Steel Only playlist featuring Mullen G2 SD12 on covers like Candyman, Wild Horses, Across the Universe & more...
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLfXm8aXRTFz2f0JOyiXpZyzNrvnJObliA |
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Josh Rossow
From:
Mchenry, Illinois
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Posted 1 Jun 2019 6:52 pm
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| Very cool Dennis! I bet she’ll clean up nicely, I’d like to see pics when you get done with it. |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 2 Jun 2019 3:43 am
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Just fyi, while I need to refresh my recollection by getting my old BMI out of the back room, the knee levers assemblies are different enough from 'standard' modern steels to make you think "really?!". What you have there may be right (and may not be....need to have a look.)
I can shoot & post some pics of anything you may want visual reference on. Just ask. |
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Lyle Dent
From:
Little Rock ,Arkansas
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Posted 2 Jun 2019 4:17 am Bmi
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Dennis, I have a BMI SD-12 about the same vintage. Don Fritsche with BMI is still building guitars in Scranton,Arkansas and has all the parts you need. It looks like it was converted to an E9 tuning with 3 floors as most 12's were 4/5 guitars with Zane's tuning on them. Give Don a call with the Serial number and he can help you out.
_________________
Rittenberry Prestige SD-12,Mullen G2 SD-12 ,Mullen PRP S-12 BMI S-12 V8 octal, BJS Bars, LiveSteelStrings,Steelers Choice Seat. |
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Dennis Montgomery
From:
Western Washington
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Posted 2 Jun 2019 11:25 am
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Thanks for all your replies!
1) Josh: I'll absolutely post pix when she's done, thanks for asking
2) Lyle: I just had a closer look underneath and if it was a 4x5, someone removed not just the pedal but also the flat cross bar for the pedal 4 position. When I got it, only the 8 inner strings were present and the previous owners son told me the story. His father was the guitar player in a band and was "nominated" to learn some pedal steel (how many times has that happened Anyway, he never got the hang of it so strung the inner 8 and played slide instead.
I just had a close look at the changer and tuning rods...it's an E9 Day setup with the E's on the left. ABC as expected, LKR & LKL handle the E's, LKV raises strings 1 & 7, RKL drops strings 2 & 8, but there's no feel of a string 2 half stop and RKR drops 5 & 10 while raising 11.
I'll give Don a call and see if he knows how this one ended up a 3x5 instead of a 4x5. FYI: it's serial# 0073...Thanks.
3) Jon: Thanks for your kind offer of sending some pix of yours my way, very kind of you! I'm going to take you up on it 
Here's the 1st thing I'm wondering about...my RKR. The mounting doesn't look like any of the other knee levers and based on the 3 holes where the screw holds it in place, I can only guess this was added on later or a repair? Anyway, I've attached some pix of this very odd knee lever and how it's mounted. Could you please give me your thoughts on this and send me a pic or two of your RKR so I can compare? Thanks! Here's a few pix of what I've got.
You can see unlike the other knees, the lever is attached way close to the body instead of closer to the tuning rods. Also the 3 holes sure look like it was an add-on and the person had trouble finding the right spot!
_________________
Hear my latest album, "Celestial" featuring a combination of Mullen SD12 and Synthesizers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhh6b_xXTx4&list=PLfXm8aXRTFz0x-Sxso0NWw493qAouK
Hear my album, "Armistice" featuring Fender 400 on every song:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLfXm8aXRTFz2Pz_GXhvmjne7lPEtsplyW
Hear my Pedal Steel Only playlist featuring Mullen G2 SD12 on covers like Candyman, Wild Horses, Across the Universe & more...
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLfXm8aXRTFz2f0JOyiXpZyzNrvnJObliA |
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Josh Rossow
From:
Mchenry, Illinois
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Posted 2 Jun 2019 12:08 pm
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Here is a pic from my newly acquired BMI sd10 ‘86 RKR lever
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Josh Rossow
From:
Mchenry, Illinois
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Posted 2 Jun 2019 12:15 pm
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From the backside of the ‘86 RKR
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Josh Rossow
From:
Mchenry, Illinois
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Posted 2 Jun 2019 12:17 pm
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This is from the RKR on my 2011 sd10. The backside is covered with a black Formica plate. Hope these pics help.
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Dennis Montgomery
From:
Western Washington
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Steven Welborn
From:
Ojai,CA USA
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Posted 2 Jun 2019 6:54 pm
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| That's the best model for BMI where the rails straddle the sides of the wood necks and connect to the changer rather than stopping short. I had Paul Redmond modify my mid 70's BMI by making beefier side rails and adding on additional tail pieces that bolt onto the changers which enabled split tuning to be added on. The project worked beautifully and Pauls work is top notch. I'll post pics soon as I locate them. |
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Bill Moore
From:
Manchester, Michigan
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Posted 3 Jun 2019 4:17 am
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| Dennis, your RKR is lowering, to do that it needs to have a reversing action. That's why it is set up like that. Look at your lever that lowers 4 and 8. It uses a different method to achieve the lowering. You will see that the crossbar is mounted lower then the others and the bellcranks are actually upside down. That gives them the reversing motion. |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 3 Jun 2019 4:31 am
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| Glad you got some good photos. I remain available should you need to request any specific details. |
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Dennis Montgomery
From:
Western Washington
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Posted 3 Jun 2019 12:54 pm
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Thanks for the replies...
1) Steven: Please post those pix, I'd like to see that.
2) Bill: Makes perfect sense now...on an all pull when the knee is going towards the changer you have to reverse the force somehow. I also compared the BMI to my Mullen...it's fascinating how different builders use different approaches to make this happen.
3) Jon: Thanks, actually I do have another question you (and others) might be able to help with
Let's talk about the missing RKL. My questions are:
1) Is it stock for the far bellcrank to have that additional bellcrank extension attached to it? Almost looks like it was riveted into place. Seems very odd and the fact that it's so filthy compared to the bellcrank next to it makes me wonder what the story is.
2) The missing knee lever seems to be completely removed from the base (which is attached to the crossbar). I was going to order a replacement knee lever from BMI, but it looks like I also need the pin that holds the lever to the base. Anyone have any experience with repairing a missing knee lever like this?
Here's some pix...
Thanks
_________________
Hear my latest album, "Celestial" featuring a combination of Mullen SD12 and Synthesizers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhh6b_xXTx4&list=PLfXm8aXRTFz0x-Sxso0NWw493qAouK
Hear my album, "Armistice" featuring Fender 400 on every song:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLfXm8aXRTFz2Pz_GXhvmjne7lPEtsplyW
Hear my Pedal Steel Only playlist featuring Mullen G2 SD12 on covers like Candyman, Wild Horses, Across the Universe & more...
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLfXm8aXRTFz2f0JOyiXpZyzNrvnJObliA |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 3 Jun 2019 1:16 pm
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I will speculate on that funky bellcrank. I am thinking that an attachment was appended to the original (if that is an original, or is it a totally non-BMI fabrication?) for the purpose of gaining some additional height, either to clear other rodding or to gain some additional leverage. I recently did something very similar (not BMI related) for this leverage purpose. Lacking gear or know-how, the best I could do was to sister a piece of metal, using epoxy plus the holes with some inserted metal rod for mechanical reinforcement. Not pretty but perfectly effective. It certainly doesn't explain all the crud on it. That's bizarre.
I would say that you are correct that you need a lever plus the pin. I'll leave others to give tips on pin insertion.
I would have suggested just getting the whole assembly but it appears that you would need to remove the cross shaft to install it. That's never fun. |
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Steven Welborn
From:
Ojai,CA USA
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Dennis Montgomery
From:
Western Washington
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Steven Welborn
From:
Ojai,CA USA
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Posted 3 Jun 2019 2:39 pm
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here's a closer look. There was a lot of slop in the finger/axle, which is common with old BMI's over time. The fingers were actually so worn they were collapsing out of alignment. Paul re-drilled the fingers and went with a slightly larger axle. Yes is was a serious project all and all.
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Dennis Montgomery
From:
Western Washington
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Steven Welborn
From:
Ojai,CA USA
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Posted 3 Jun 2019 6:25 pm
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I don't really recall how the bell cranks were situated beforehand. Maybe you can see the difference by comparing it to yours.
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Dennis Montgomery
From:
Western Washington
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Posted 3 Jun 2019 8:41 pm
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| Steven Welborn wrote: |
I don't really recall how the bell cranks were situated beforehand. Maybe you can see the difference by comparing it to yours.
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Hey Steve, there's definitely several differences. Specifically, the size/shape of the bellcranks, how they attach to the crossrods, and where the tuning rods actually attach relative to the crossrod underneath.
1) Your bellcranks are about 75% the width of the crossrod and are oriented to the back of the crossrod as far away from the changer as possible, mine cover the entire crossrod.
2) Your bellcranks are attached with a hex screw next to the bellcrank body, mine are attached with a screw behind the bellcrank.
I don't really think either of those is that important, but what I think is important is where the tuning rod attaches to the bellcrank relative to the crossrod underneath. Yours attach much further back (it looks to be about the center of the crossrod) than mine (which attach much closer to the front of the crossrod and closer to the changer). I'm guessing that affects the amount of pedal/lever pull necessary to move the string the same distance, or perhaps requires less pressure to get the same string movement?
It also appears to my eye (though I could easily be wrong) that your tuning rods could be a little thicker than mine? I don't have calipers to get an exact measurement but mine appear to be 1/8" or a little less in diameter.
Interesting to compare, thanks for posting the undercarriage pix
_________________
Hear my latest album, "Celestial" featuring a combination of Mullen SD12 and Synthesizers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhh6b_xXTx4&list=PLfXm8aXRTFz0x-Sxso0NWw493qAouK
Hear my album, "Armistice" featuring Fender 400 on every song:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLfXm8aXRTFz2Pz_GXhvmjne7lPEtsplyW
Hear my Pedal Steel Only playlist featuring Mullen G2 SD12 on covers like Candyman, Wild Horses, Across the Universe & more...
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLfXm8aXRTFz2f0JOyiXpZyzNrvnJObliA |
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Steven Welborn
From:
Ojai,CA USA
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Posted 3 Jun 2019 9:06 pm
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QOUTE: "I don't really think either of those is that important, but what I think is important is where the tuning rod attaches to the bellcrank relative to the crossrod underneath. Yours attach much further back (it looks to be about the center of the crossrod) than mine (which attach much closer to the front of the crossrod and closer to the changer). I'm guessing that affects the amount of pedal/lever pull necessary to move the string the same distance, or perhaps requires less pressure to get the same string movement?"
Exactly. More mechanically efficient. |
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Dennis Montgomery
From:
Western Washington
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Steven Welborn
From:
Ojai,CA USA
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Posted 4 Jun 2019 10:59 am
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| I think those are the original bell cranks but not 100% certain. Since you mentioned yours span the whole width of the cross bars and mine are about 3/4 of the width, hard to say, but in any case any way you can work it to get the pull rod/hole connection situated toward the back of bars(away from changer) closer or just before the fulcrum point does the trick. I suppose you could drill a new set of holes on the other side of the bell cranks, or maybe Paul clipped those bell cranks so he could mount them further back which is why they're not as wide as yours. Speaking of those thin but wide sheet metal bell cranks... you gotta love em. They free up much more room to route and align the pull rods, and the flat bar system made it possible to mount those. |
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Dennis Montgomery
From:
Western Washington
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Dennis Montgomery
From:
Western Washington
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Posted 8 Jun 2019 9:01 am New Question or two
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Hi all,
I had a very nice talk with Don at BMI yesterday about several things related to my restoration project.
1) Since mine is so old (1970's) he couldn't send me an RKL knee lever confident it would fit so asked me to send the whole crossbar so he could add the knee to the existing housing...or maybe replace the whole knee/housing assembly...I don't know. So I removed the tuning rods, back mica cover, and got the crossbar off. This is interesting because it's the one crossbar that has that very odd bellcrank extension riveted in. I wonder what he'll think of that? 
2) As I was taking off the tuning rods I noticed several were bent. I've attached a shot of the bent ones, are they supposed to be like this or are they damaged? If they were specifically bent at the factory for the bellcrank -> changer holes they're meant for, I luckily made a rodding chart while I was taking them off
3) I asked him why my BMI is a factory designed 3x5 (there's no evidence a 4th pedal was ever present) and setup for Day/Extended E9? I thought all the 70's BMI 12 strings were 4x5 and setup to Zane Beck's tuning. He said they would sell whatever setup the customer wanted to order and that he built 10, 11, 12, 14 strings and any knee/pedal combo requested.
He also gave me some valuable restoration tips
Anyway, here's some shots...
Thanks for any info you could provide!
_________________
Hear my latest album, "Celestial" featuring a combination of Mullen SD12 and Synthesizers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhh6b_xXTx4&list=PLfXm8aXRTFz0x-Sxso0NWw493qAouK
Hear my album, "Armistice" featuring Fender 400 on every song:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLfXm8aXRTFz2Pz_GXhvmjne7lPEtsplyW
Hear my Pedal Steel Only playlist featuring Mullen G2 SD12 on covers like Candyman, Wild Horses, Across the Universe & more...
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLfXm8aXRTFz2f0JOyiXpZyzNrvnJObliA |
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