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Topic: Taking up C6 in '06 |
Nathan Delacretaz
From:
Austin, Texas, USA
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Posted 27 Dec 2005 6:19 am |
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I am in the process of getting my first D10!! Of course now I am facing the fact --- the musical equivalent of "buyer's remorse"!? --- that I'm committed to learning that mind-bending C6 neck. It's really exciting...and humbling... Don't want to spread myself too thin... God knows a person could spend a lifetime on E9 alone!
So this is kind of a 2-question post:
1. I have a few months experience on 8-string non-pedal and am tempted to use the "old-timey" tuning with a G rather than a D on string 1 -- is this short-sighted?
2. Wondering if any of you could share anecdotes or suggestions as far as starting up on C6... |
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Steve Hitsman
From:
Waterloo, IL
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Posted 27 Dec 2005 6:31 am
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| Buddy's Basic C6th. |
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Ray Minich
From:
Bradford, Pa. Frozen Tundra
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Posted 27 Dec 2005 6:47 am
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Nathan; I too just got a D-10 so I could enjoy self induced C6th pain and suffering.
There are several C6th tunings covered in the literature. Doug Journigan's is the one this most recently acquired axe of mine came tuned to. Dr. Hugh's tuning in his sight reading course is somewhat the same yet different.
Are there any recommendations from the knowledgable about what tuning would be best to start out with?
[This message was edited by Ray Minich on 27 December 2005 at 06:47 AM.] |
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Al Marcus
From:
Cedar Springs,MI USA (deceased)
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Posted 27 Dec 2005 7:28 am
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Nathan-I would say for a brand new player to try B6 or A6 or E6, which are all relative to E9.
But the pedals could all be same as Buddy Emmons standard pedals and knee levers which cover about everything well.
Good luck and Happy New Year...al 
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My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 27 Dec 2005 7:50 am
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Herby Wallace is a master on the C6th neck and he has a G as the top string. When Herby changes, I will.  |
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David Wren
From:
Placerville, California, USA
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Posted 27 Dec 2005 8:54 am
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What Steve said, get the Emmons Basic C6th course... a nice analysis of the relationships between the E9th and C6th tunings, and interesting tab as well.
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Dave Wren
'95Carter S12-E9/B6,7X7; Session500; Hilton Pedal
www.ameechapman.com
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John McGann
From:
Boston, Massachusetts, USA * R.I.P.
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Posted 27 Dec 2005 9:04 am
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Buyer's remorse will probably disappear in the first hour- the C6th neck is incredibly beautiful and useful, despite what opinions you hear- form your own! It's not just for Western Swing!
I like the D on top, and with the 3rd string raise lever you get what's missing there 3 frets up...or you can suffer thinking about how Jeff Lampert and others have an 11 string that has both the D and G in the open tuning- you know, it's pedal steel guitar, you'll never have it all anyway.
If you don't have any 1st string changes, you can just change string guages and try them both and see what you like best.
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http://www.johnmcgann.com
Info for musicians, transcribers, technique tips and fun stuff. Joaquin Murphey transcription book, Rhythm Tuneup DVD and more...
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Nathan Delacretaz
From:
Austin, Texas, USA
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Posted 27 Dec 2005 9:36 am
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Hey - thanks, fellas. I know it'll be impossible to go wrong with an Emmons course...if I force myself and make the time! I appreciate you guys' comments. I realize I'm in for months of deliberate hunt-and-peck, but you gotta crawl before you can walk I guess.
Nathan
p.s. - John, aren't you the Berklee guy? I have had a lesson each with Bret Wilmott and Wayne Krantz in the past. Wowzers. |
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John McGann
From:
Boston, Massachusetts, USA * R.I.P.
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Posted 27 Dec 2005 9:58 am
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Those guys are great; I studied w/ Bret back in the day also...feel free to email me as you get rolling on C6th!
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http://www.johnmcgann.com
Info for musicians, transcribers, technique tips and fun stuff. Joaquin Murphey transcription book, Rhythm Tuneup DVD and more...
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Fred Einspruch
From:
Alaska
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Posted 27 Dec 2005 12:28 pm
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| Is there any information on the web that basically describes the C6th neck. Bob has a nice intro to the E9th on this site. I would at least like to tune my back neck up and know what the pedals do and where at least some chords are. Is there any info out there, Thanks,Fred |
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John McGann
From:
Boston, Massachusetts, USA * R.I.P.
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Fred Einspruch
From:
Alaska
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Posted 27 Dec 2005 12:54 pm
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| Thanks John |
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Buck Dilly
From:
Branchville, NJ, USA * R.I.P.
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Posted 28 Dec 2005 4:01 am
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| When I switched to Hi D I started to fly. And the other stuff is still there with the knee lever. I went back and forth for about 6 months and realized one day that I stopped going back. |
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Nathan Delacretaz
From:
Austin, Texas, USA
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Posted 28 Dec 2005 2:36 pm
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| Thanks for all the comments, fellas. I think I am going to go the more contemporary route and use the D on top (a couple of Forumites emailed to point out that the D string 1 is analogous to the F# string 1 on the E neck... good point!) I'm not a real single-note/lick-oriented player, but it makes sense to have the 2/9 pitch in there somewhere... |
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Al Marcus
From:
Cedar Springs,MI USA (deceased)
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Posted 29 Dec 2005 3:08 pm
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Nathan-Good choice, "D" on top definitely. I use the F# on top on my E6. Same thing, really.
But it gives me a familiarity with E9 that way.
There are lots of good course material out there for C6 and that is a plus for a beginner.....al
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My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/
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Charles Turpin
From:
Mexico, Missouri, USA
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Posted 5 Jan 2006 11:04 am
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| I use both necks on my guitar a lot, The one above realy said right when he said remember the C6th is not only used for western swing. Once you get use to the standard tuning and learn the chords on there. Like friend of mine said the C6th almost plays itself so good luck |
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Hank Ruf
From:
Little Elm, Texas USA
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Posted 8 Jan 2006 1:26 pm
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| I think beginners on the C6th neck try to make it too complicated. For the beginner try not to compare it to the E9th neck. Think of it as a new instrument you are wanting to learn. At first don't think of the pedals [don't use them] until you understand where the basic cords are. Lets start with just some VERY basic cords. Open you have a "C" cord and up to the 12th fret you have "C" again. The 9th string open is tuned to "F", do not use that string with the "C" cord because it could cause you problems at first. You also have a "F" cord open. Use the 9th string with the "F" cord. Lets review, you have "C" and "F" cord open; there are other cords open as well but I don't want to complicate things for you. You can use any combination of strings you WANT. Just watch the use of the 9th string. Don't try to make it too complicated. THe "C" tuning can be used in any kind of music. Have fun with this for awhile then learn something more. Go slow! |
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John Bechtel
From:
Nashville, Tennessee, R.I.P.
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Posted 8 Jan 2006 3:01 pm
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I'd want to be the last one to complicate matters, but; I probably won't be anyway, so; just as a suggestion to possibly make reference easier, if you're real familiar with the E9 and all it's pedal changes and you've never played the C6-Tuning, it might help your reference-point to tune down to B6 (1-fret below C6-pitch) That way you will still be playing basically at the same frets as you do on the E9-neck, although unfortunately, I doubt you would find any instructional material tabbed for B6-Tuning. One advantage of E9 & B6 is that all similiar open-strings will actually be the same pitch! E9 & B6 are related-tunings, but; E9 & C6 are not!  You'll also get a slightly ‘bigger~sound’ by tuning C6-gauges 1/2-tone flat!
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“Big John” Bechtel
’05 D–10 Derby – (6 & 
’65 Re-Issue Fender Twin–Reverb Custom™ 15”
Current Equipment
Newest Steel |
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Ron Sodos
From:
San Antonio, Texas USA
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Posted 8 Jan 2006 6:49 pm
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| I have never got serious on C6th until last year. I play E9th for 25+ years. First i bought Buddy's basic C6th. Then I bought a video by Bobbe Seymour and 2 beginner courses by Herby Wallace. Then I bought Jeff Newmans C6th Workshop DVD and C6th and Swinging DVD also By Jeff. Jeff's DVD's are amazing. They are without a doubt the best I have seen. I actually can jam a little on C6th with my band for the first time. I have only been working with Jeff's DVD's for a couple of months. Buy them from Fran you will not be disappointed. Jeff was a genius at instruction. His insight was a gift from above. He always had a way of conveying his ideas that actually gets through. I can actually begin to understand the structure of the C6th now for the first time. Thanx again Jeff!!! [This message was edited by Ron Sodos on 08 January 2006 at 06:53 PM.] |
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Al Marcus
From:
Cedar Springs,MI USA (deceased)
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Posted 8 Jan 2006 7:25 pm
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John Bechtel-Good advice .
I would Say B6 instead of C6 is much more relative to E9.
I imagine if BE tuned down to B6 years ago, we would all be playing B6 on the bottom neck....al
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My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/
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Nathan Delacretaz
From:
Austin, Texas, USA
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Posted 8 Jan 2006 8:04 pm
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Thank you gents for all the advice. I have had the D10 for a week now and am getting used to it. As I mentioned, having a little experience on the 8-string ACEGACEG (as Herb Steiner's understudy in "Hank Williams:Lost Highway" - talk about pressure!), the fundamentals of what's going on are pretty much in my noodle...It has just been a question of effectively using those 5 additional pedals. I will get there!
[Also, I am not considering the B6 tuning, but thank you guys for trying to accommodate my E9 mindset!] |
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Gene Jones
From:
Oklahoma City, OK USA, (deceased)
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Posted 9 Jan 2006 4:57 am
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I started tuning to B6 about 1950 so I could move the key of C away from open strings. My inside neck is still tuned to B6 today.
It's relationship to E9 was not known to me until about 20 years later.
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www.genejones.com
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Hank Ruf
From:
Little Elm, Texas USA
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Posted 9 Jan 2006 5:23 am
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I think alot more guys would be playing C6th if everybody would quit telling them to relate C6th to E9th. There is a ralationship but that is confusing to many players that know how to play E9th. Try a NEW approach. Think of C6th as a none pedal tuning at first. You can play C6th without pedals. Ad pedals later.
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[This message was edited by Hank Ruf on 09 January 2006 at 05:27 AM.] |
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Herb Steiner
From:
Spicewood TX 78669
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Posted 9 Jan 2006 6:20 am
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| Quote: |
| as Herb Steiner's understudy in "Hank Williams:Lost Highway" - talk about pressure!) |
Nate, I dislike the expression "understudy," which IMHO discounts your excellent musicianship. I prefer to think of myself as having been your "overstudy." 
Nate is, as I noted above, an excellent musician, one of the go-to pickers on guitar and steel for the Zach Scott Theatre, the top theatre in town. It was he that was offered the role in "Hank," but turned it down because of job/family demands and tossed me the bone.
When we had lunch one day and he excitedly said, "hey, I'm getting a D-10 and want to get into C6," I feigned enthusiasm but inwardly thought "Great, just great... Oh well, I guess I can always sell fishing tackle at Cabela's or something."
I have no doubts he'll grok the C6 in record time.
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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association
[This message was edited by Herb Steiner on 09 January 2006 at 06:21 AM.] |
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Nathan Delacretaz
From:
Austin, Texas, USA
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Posted 9 Jan 2006 10:41 am
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Herb, your musical skill is matched only by your way with words...and talent for exaggeration - I'd do well to meet half of that gracious description!
Getting humbled night after night on your Stringmaster during those Hank rehearsals was very educational (notice it took 8 months for my ego to heal enough to get into C6 again!)...[This message was edited by Nathan Delacretaz on 09 January 2006 at 08:26 PM.] |
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