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Topic: Do you use Reverb when playing Hawaiian style? |
David Weisenthal
From:
Arizona, USA
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Posted 22 Apr 2019 10:54 am |
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| Hi folks, I'm sure this has been mentioned on here, but I am just becoming interested in Hawaiian music and attempting some simpler arrangements (noodling) from YouTube. What's the opinion on a little reverb use for the style? Dick McIntire, and Bud tutmarc are my new guitar Heroes for Hawaiian. I don't notice much Reverb on what I've heard from these guys. |
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David Matzenik
From:
Cairns, on the Coral Sea
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Posted 22 Apr 2019 12:16 pm
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That is a good question. I think it depends on your rig. If you have a good guitar and amp, I have come to the conclusion that reverb doesn't help steel guitar. I play several guitars including a Ric B6 with a 1972 Fender Champ no reverb amp. They sound great for Hawaiian. I also think we have become addicted to reverb, as it is ubiquitous today.
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Don't go in the water after lunch. You'll get a cramp and drown. - Mother. |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 22 Apr 2019 12:19 pm
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I most certainly use reverb when playing Hawaiian music, also a little slap back delay. 
Erv |
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Steve Marinak
From:
Man O War Cay, Abaco, Bahamas
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Posted 22 Apr 2019 1:47 pm
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Like David, I too do not use reverb as I'm going for an old school 30's/40's sound. Rickenbacher guitar, Fender Champ amp. Closest thing to that old Dick McIntyre sound and era.
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Steve Marinak |
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David Weisenthal
From:
Arizona, USA
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Posted 22 Apr 2019 2:17 pm
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Thanks guys. I actually found this older thread on google where you discussed this a few years ago....https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=312938
I just got a small 8" Rickenbacker Electro 3 tube amp and love it for western swing era stuff. Slightly over driven sound. I'm trying a cleaner amp now for Hawaiian stuff...jury is still out. |
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Nic Neufeld
From:
Kansas City, Missouri
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Posted 22 Apr 2019 3:43 pm
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I like a bit. But I can't think of examples where it should be "wet" or really thick. I like having the option of a bit of reverb but I find myself kicking that knob a bit further and further back. My "heroes" are Jules Ah See, Barney Isaacs, and Andy Iona, and it does depend on the record but there's a lot of dry steel guitar from them.
Honestly I feel like I need reverb like I needed overdrive when I was learning fretted guitar. I probably just need to improve my technique. But a touch of studio or room reverb on a Hawaii Calls or Alfred Apaka album, I'm not going to complain about. But sproingy cavernous reverb on the steel guitar amp....nope. Not really needed.
Tapa Room Tapes are a great example (I know I'm a broken record on this). Steel is probably dry except for room reverb. And it sounds fantastic!
_________________
Waikīkī, at night when the shadows are falling
I hear the rolling surf calling
Calling and calling to me |
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Scott Thomas
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Posted 22 Apr 2019 6:49 pm
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With all due respect, I never really warmed up to the heavy reverb Hawaiian steel sound represented by the Dutch East Indie greats Rudy Wairata and George de Fretes. Check them out though, you may like their sound. I did come to like the rather harsh and reverbed sound of Benny Rogers (especially some of his solo recordings) I don't know for sure if that is room sound or not.
Basically, reverb makes the Hawaiian steel sound too remote for me. I'm also a fan of the two you mentioned. Tutmarc seems to have used a little more reverb, but I never found it distracting. |
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Jim Heffernan
From:
Haddon Heights NJ
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Posted 23 Apr 2019 10:10 am
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| Heaven's YES |
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David Matzenik
From:
Cairns, on the Coral Sea
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Posted 23 Apr 2019 1:09 pm
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Another consideration might be how much vibrato we use. If you play semi-continuously, alla Andy Iona, reverb is superfluous, that is, to my ear.
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Don't go in the water after lunch. You'll get a cramp and drown. - Mother. |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 23 Apr 2019 1:15 pm
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No
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Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Nic Neufeld
From:
Kansas City, Missouri
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Posted 23 Apr 2019 2:46 pm
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Other thing I was thinking about along these lines...reverb is good for softening the tail ends of notes and sort of blending things together...like David mentioned, with some steel players you've got this continuum of sound from note to note (Andy Iona is a great example...imagine a heavy dose of reverb on his version of Carefree...it would cover up all the subtlety and ruin it, IMO!).
Heavy reverb sits pretty well with percussive input...think 60s surf guitar...snappy sounding Fender guitars with lots of attack and palm muting. Steel guitar in the Hawaiian style is often (but not always) quite opposite...that sweet nahenahe sound...attack is muted, and the decay is kept going with slides between notes, the p'tah technique, etc. I kind of agree that with that style reverb...or at least a lot of reverb...gets a bit in the way, or is at least somewhat redundant.
...as an aside, my first introduction to steel guitar was via Steve Howe of Yes...there's an example of BUCKETS of reverb and delay on a steel guitar (see the end of Gates of Delirium suite as well as And You and I) and in its musical context, it works.
_________________
Waikīkī, at night when the shadows are falling
I hear the rolling surf calling
Calling and calling to me |
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David Weisenthal
From:
Arizona, USA
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Posted 23 Apr 2019 3:31 pm
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| Good insight guys, so much to learn from you fellows. David, Now that you mention the style of continuous vibrato making reverb less noticeable, I see what what you mean. I am attempting the McIntire style of constant vibrato on "South Sea Moon"-its quite a workout. Beautiful haunting melody... |
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Nic Neufeld
From:
Kansas City, Missouri
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Posted 23 Apr 2019 3:57 pm
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| Scott Thomas wrote: |
| With all due respect, I never really warmed up to the heavy reverb Hawaiian steel sound represented by the Dutch East Indie greats Rudy Wairata and George de Fretes. |
I like this song, and I like both players and recordings, but it's a good contrast:
George de Fretes playing Lei No Ka'iulani:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yVW_3muXJ0
Then listen to David "Feet" Rogers play it with Gabby:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8R4qpypaBco
Definitely hits me a lot differently, I admit. Both good, but the latter has this "across the room" intimacy.
Here's that recording of Carefree I mentioned. This one gets me every time. Reverb would've killed it! It reminds me (pretension alert, I'm sorry, I'm sorry) of the ending to Mahler's 9th symphony where it fades out breathlessly and you as the audience find yourself holding your breath to hear the last strains (my wife, who dutifully accompanies me to Mahler symphonies, would be mocking me right now, deservedly so, were she here)...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzLSRu7K5pk
_________________
Waikīkī, at night when the shadows are falling
I hear the rolling surf calling
Calling and calling to me |
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Loren Tilley
From:
Maui, Hawaii
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Posted 24 Apr 2019 9:15 am
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I don't usually, and the guys I play with don't either unless they are plugging direct into a PA and the sound man adds it. A lot of the guys I play with have old frying pans with the hollow neck and that seems to almost add a reverb-like quality to the sound. I play mostly either a bakelite or wood bodied guitars and have at times added a tiny bit of reverb when playing those.
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Rickenbacher B-6 |
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Twayn Williams
From:
Portland, OR
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Posted 29 Apr 2019 12:01 pm
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Best to learn without reverb as it can become a crutch.
But, in my Hawaiian trio -- upright bass/uke/lap steel -- I use a fair amount (if the amp has it) to help fill out the sound.
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Primitive Utility Steel |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 29 Apr 2019 12:59 pm
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Reverb makes it sound "richer".
Erv |
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Nic Neufeld
From:
Kansas City, Missouri
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Posted 30 Apr 2019 4:24 am
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An example of an album with really dry Hawaiian steel...Alfred Apaka Sings The Hawaiian Wedding Song:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VrZGs2ENbo&list=OLAK5uy_msxSOs2z-gmX72HkTCSmv4V2RWAxPeW1A&index=9
I assumed it was Jules on a Fender 1000...but am second guessing myself, and....hey I have the album! So I went and read the back cover...looks like about half the songs were recorded with the Hawaiian Village Serenaders (Jules) and half with Danny Stewart's Hawaiians. I was going to say some of the playing reminded me more of the playing DS did on "Hawaiian Favorites".
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Waikīkī, at night when the shadows are falling
I hear the rolling surf calling
Calling and calling to me |
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George Rout
From:
St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada
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Posted 2 May 2019 12:55 pm
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Hi Guys: I use what I call "just a touch of reverb", more of a "presence" sound, not an echo. In the early dark days, many folks played steel guitar including Hawaiian without any reverb, simply because it didn't exist. You can tell the sound immediately, lots of steel music like that at the time.
As a young guy, I couldn't afford any effect device like an Echobox (loop of tape machine), so I made one from two funnels, a microphone, a second amplifier, a speaker AND 50 feet of garden hose mounted on one of those two wheel hose carriers. It took about a half second for the sound to travel through the hose. You don't need "quality" for the reverb signal. Of course, it wasn't "adjustable", unless we changed the length of hose. I was proud of my device and we actually wheeled it out on stage!!!!! The resourceful days!!
Geo
_________________
http://georgerout.com
"I play in the A Major tuning. It's fun to learn and so easy to play. It's as old as the hills....like me" |
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David Knutson
From:
Cowichan Valley, Canada
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Posted 2 May 2019 1:23 pm
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George, your garden hose reverb is one of the coolest things I've ever heard of. Right up there with James Taylor's famous Drum Machine.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9A_G_IYc0o
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David K |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 2 May 2019 1:30 pm
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This was my 1st reverb unit:
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George Rout
From:
St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada
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Posted 2 May 2019 5:57 pm
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Thanks David.
Erv, I got a Fender Reverb also when my first half decent amplifier was a Bogen Challenger CHA 33 watt PA unit for my Console Grande. As mentioned previously, i use "just a touch/presence" of reverb, so it was almost like overkill. But I felt like a king with all my big time stuff in 1955.
I was never had the interest in effects pedals and have only a chorus unit and a Tom Brumley resonator pedal. I have and play a 1970 OMI Dobro, so the pedal is just a fun thing sometimes.
Thanks guys.
George
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http://georgerout.com
"I play in the A Major tuning. It's fun to learn and so easy to play. It's as old as the hills....like me" |
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Scott Thomas
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Posted 2 May 2019 6:58 pm
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| George, I had never heard of a Bogen Challenger from back then. But now I know about them! I think it actually has a modern look for that time. Of course the surf guitar players really latched onto those outboard reverb units, and turned them way up to make the guitars sound as wet as the ocean. |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 3 May 2019 7:50 am
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Before reverb units, they used to go into a bathroom with tile walls and floors and let the sound bounce off of them to get the effect.
Erv |
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Tom Snook
From:
Ft. Lauderdale, Florida, USA
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Posted 3 May 2019 1:39 pm
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Anyone try a little CHORUS? I use just enough to add a little shimmer.It's the closest you can get to that Magnatone sound without a Magnatone steel.
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I wanna go back to my little grass shack........ |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 3 May 2019 3:48 pm
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I add a small amount of reverb to almost everything I play. Not enough that you'd notice most of the time. The only style that sounds better without reverb is rock, in my opinion, and I'm not very good at that.
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