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Topic: U12 Copedent Questions |
Scott Spadafora
From:
Washington, USA
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Posted 31 Mar 2019 10:12 am |
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Good Morning,
I have ordered an MSA U12 and am at the point where I need to make some final decisions on a copedent. I have basically used Larry Bell's copedent gleaned from his website. I've added a Franklin on pedal 0. See below.
I could use some input on these items:
On my LL I'd really like D/C# on string 2. Is it possible mechanically with the 9 string raise to D and would it be friendly?
On my LR1 I was leaning toward having G/G# on 7 with G# on 1. I often see this lever with a G# to F# on 6 but I can't really decide what that would do for me.
On my LV I sometimes see just the B on string 5 lowered and not the B on string 9. Why?
I am trying to get away from double-pedaling (and give my RL lever a rest in 'B6' mode, not intending to use a lock lever) hence the LR2 lever. Is it a true statement that most double-pedaling involves the function of my LR2 (major to dominant) along with another pedal (4,5,or 6 in my case)?
Thanks to all.
Scott
Last edited by Scott Spadafora on 1 Apr 2019 8:42 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Pete Burak
From:
Portland, OR USA
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Posted 31 Mar 2019 11:54 am Re: U12 Questions
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| Scott Spadafora wrote: |
Good Morning,
I have ordered an MSA U12 and am at the point where I need to make some final decisions on a copedent. I have basically used Larry Bell's copedent gleaned from his website. I've added a Franklin on pedal 0. See below.
I could use some input on these items:
On my LL I'd really like D/C# on string 2. Is it possible mechanically with the 9 string raise to D and would it be friendly?
On my LR1 I was leaning toward having G/G# on 7 with G# on 1. I often see this lever with a G# to F# on 6 but I can't really decide what that would do for me.
On my LV I sometimes see just the B on string 5 lowered and not the B on string 9. Why?
I am trying to get away from double-pedaling (and give my RL lever a rest in 'B6' mode, not intending to use a lock lever) hence the LR2 lever. Is it a true statement that most double-pedaling involves the function of my LR2 (major to dominant) along with another pedal (4,5,or 6 in my case)?
Thanks to all.
Scott
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1. It should work, but you will have a half-stop feel in the string-9 raise from B to D when you hit the C# note. It sounds like string 2 and string 9 will never be at a D note at the same time, and you will always have to feel the half stop for string 2 D or you will shoot right by it.
2. The common change is to raise 1 and 2 to be in unison with 3 and 4, and drop string-6 G# to F#. On a Push-Pull Emmons the whole tone lower on String-6 causes too much slack in the B-pedal, so some will raise string 7 instead.
3. On a D10 C6 they only lower the one note. On Universal you may want to lower all of them for E9th purposes.
4. imho, The pedals that raise and lower your string-12 should be next to each other to avoid double pedaling. If I recall correctly, Larry Bell originally put P6 on a knee lever only because he was playing a Push-Pull Emmons and there were mechanical considerations. Not sure you would need to do this on a new MSA.
I would run all these questions by the MSA folks.
I have a few S12U's here in Portland if you are nearby. You could check them out before ordering if you want to. |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 31 Mar 2019 2:49 pm Re: U12 Questions
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| Scott Spadafora wrote: |
| On my LR1 I was leaning toward having G/G# on 7 with G# on 1. I often see this lever with a G# to F# on 6 but I can't really decide what that would do for me. |
Have you considered having both? Think about it. When you lower 6 to F#, the F# on 7 becomes redundant so it could go up to G or G# - easy enough to retune until you settle on a preference.
The G# to F# on 6 is useful with E to D# (I-V change) or split with the B pedal to give a G for minor chords (pedals up) or a 7th (pedals down).
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Pete Burak
From:
Portland, OR USA
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Posted 1 Apr 2019 6:15 am
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There is a Steel Jam in Portland on Sunday April 28th.
FYI if you want to see/hear a bunch of Steels and Players.
You could possibly get a feel for the changes you are considering.
See post in Events & Announcements.
https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=341979 |
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Larry Bell
From:
Englewood, Florida
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Posted 5 Apr 2019 6:13 pm
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Well, naturally, I LIKE IT. 😎
I have had the E to D lever on the 8th string since Bud Carter built my first store-bought U12 guitar in 1975. It is not just there as a B6 change. It gives the same D as string 9 on a 10 string E9 so you can play a major chord with the tonic on 8 (8,6,5) and go to the Dom7 chord without changing the grip by lowering 8 a whole tone. IN ADDITION, B6 pedal combinations including P6 can be made with one pedal and one lever AND P5 and P7 from the standard C6 setup are adjacent and easily combined with one foot. What’s not to like? 😀
I do raise 9 B to D on two of my guitars but not on my ‘main guitar’, FWIW
Oh, and I totally agree with the two F# to G#s on the inside LKR (closest to the player), especially when you have the PF pedal on P0
_________________
Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
My CD's: 'I've Got Friends in COLD Places' - 'Pedal Steel Guitar'
2021 Rittenberry S/D-12 8x7, 1976 Emmons S/D-12 7x6, 1969 Emmons S/D-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Quilter ToneBlock 202 TT-12 |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 6 Apr 2019 6:03 am
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I do a similar thing. I have E-D#-D on RKR so it puts me in B6 then I push on down to P6. P5 & P7 next to each other is great. On the vertical I raise string 9 to B#, which is the most-used bit of P8. So I can get any combination of P5,6,7 or 8 with one foot.
I also raise 9 to D on another lever. It's good to have the choice as the voicing is different between a slacker thinner string and a tighter fatter one.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Pete Burak
From:
Portland, OR USA
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Posted 6 Apr 2019 6:55 am
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I too am a life long Universal player and Emmons Push Pull Universal owner, so I have read Larry's website from end to end tons of times!
Thanks, Larry! I use those same concepts, I just have things layed out a little different.
Concerning the P0 function in this Copedant...
I had an idea for a Pedal-0 that would be both PF pedals on one pedal.
Pedal-0:
Raise strings 1 and 2 to be in unision with 3 and 4.
Lower strings 5-B and 6-G# a whole step.
Lower strings 9-B and 10-G# a whole step.
I think it would work.  
But having the PF Pedal brings up another issue...
How do you tune the Split between the A-Pedal and the LKV when you have the the PF Pdeal lowering string-5 as whole tone? That Split usually requiers a Hard-Stop Split Screw for the Bb note. |
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