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Topic: 10th string lower to A on pedal A |
Al Terhune
From:
Newcastle, WA
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Posted 9 Dec 2005 7:38 pm |
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From more digging on this great forum of education, I saw a few people mention this change. I tried it, love it, and want to pass on my thanks for all of this incredible advice. What I especially like about this, is that you not only get the great lower "resolution" on the 10th, but you ALSO get the C# resolution by lowering your 9th!!!!! One of the few changes/tricks I've learned lately that really made me grin (heck, you've got four strings raising and lowering)(This is simply going from I to IV).
Al[This message was edited by Al Terhune on 09 December 2005 at 07:42 PM.] [This message was edited by Al Terhune on 09 December 2005 at 07:55 PM.] |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 10 Dec 2005 6:08 am
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| But...you lose all those beautiful 5&10 octave licks!? |
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Drew Howard
From:
48854
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Posted 10 Dec 2005 7:07 am
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I remember reading Emmons had this change on his JCH.
Drew
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Drew Howard - website - Fessenden guitars, 70's Fender Twin, etc.
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Pete Burak
From:
Portland, OR USA
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Posted 10 Dec 2005 10:16 am
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I'm a big fan of low B lowering to A on the A-Pedal, on either 10 or 12 string steels.
I like to keep the B>C# raise also, so I put it on the C pedal (which basically means that sometimes you are playing the Day setup, with the addition E>F# on string 4).
So with A+B you get the big bottom end.
B+C (with all B's raising to C#) maintains your octaves if that's your thing.
Sub C+F (for A+F) to keep the B>C# on the low inversion of your A+F position (Of course you can play the A+F positions anytime and just avoid the low B>A).
On S12U this works out incredibly well!
I also like the low B>A for the minor position A+B+LKV (with LKV lowering 5 and 9 B>Bb and tuned with split tuners for the C note).
[This message was edited by Pete Burak on 10 December 2005 at 10:18 AM.] |
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Bobby Lee
From:
Cloverdale, California, USA
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Posted 10 Dec 2005 11:19 am
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If you need that low A, I think it's better to add it to the 3rd pedal ("C"), or add a 4th "Franklin" pedal. You lose the root of your F-lever position chords if the first pedal doesn't raise B to C#.
For example, sliding from a C chord on strings 10, 8, 6 at the 8th fret, down to a G chord (A+F) at the 6th fret. If the "A" pedal is lowering the 10th string, this doesn't work.
Another option would be a move towards the U-12: do away with the D string entirely and add a low G# string.
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 Bobby Lee (a.k.a. b0b) - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Williams D-12 E9, C6add9, Sierra Olympic S-12 (F Diatonic)
Sierra Laptop S-8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster D-8 (E13, C6 or A6) My Blog |
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Charles Curtis
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Posted 10 Dec 2005 12:01 pm
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| Doesn't Bobbe have this on his guitar? |
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Charlie McDonald
From:
out of the blue
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Posted 10 Dec 2005 12:15 pm
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| Quote: |
| ... do away with the D string entirely and add a low G# string. |
... or C# and A on the bottom.
It's going to be the newest in hip, in the progression from S10 to E13 uni. |
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John Sluszny
From:
Brussels, Belgium
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Posted 10 Dec 2005 12:38 pm
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| Both B's to A on ped.0 and G# to F# (6th str.)on a KL,there you've got it all! |
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Al Terhune
From:
Newcastle, WA
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Posted 10 Dec 2005 3:25 pm
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Bobby -- it's not exactly the same, but with practice and finese, sneaking up to your 9th and lowering it as you slide down from the C to the 6th fret (for that G) fills in for that C#.
Al |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 10 Dec 2005 3:52 pm
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'Course, if you really need that low "A" (great for power chords, too!), do what I did and put it on the lever! It works especially well on the lever that lowers the 2nd string a full tone, and gives you one of the most beautiful IV-V7 resolves possible!
(I've had this pedal since '73.) |
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Bobby Lee
From:
Cloverdale, California, USA
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Posted 11 Dec 2005 11:54 am
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Donny's right. Lowering string 10 to A on your D lever is the most unobtrusive option. You can even lower string 9 to C# at the same time - a very common change. So the lever would be:
lever
1 F#
2 D# -D
3 G#
4 E
5 B
6 G#
7 F#
8 E
9 D -C#
10 B -A You might even be able to put a half stop on the second string to get the C# there too. Musically you lose very little because the low C# and B are rarely used together.
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Bobby Lee (a.k.a. b0b) - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Williams D-12 E9, C6add9, Sierra Olympic S-12 (F Diatonic)
Sierra Laptop S-8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster D-8 (E13, C6 or A6) My Blog [This message was edited by Bobby Lee on 11 December 2005 at 11:55 AM.] |
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richard burton
From:
Britain
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Posted 11 Dec 2005 11:39 pm
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On first glance, Donny's method of putting it on a lever with the second and ninth strings seems the way to go.
Problem is, if you're playing an all-pull, the tenth string won't go to A, if you press pedals A and B and use the aforementioned knee lever (a very common usage).
The tenth string will be in 'split mode'.
On a push-pull, the tenth will raise to C#, as the raise pedal will prevent any lowering to A. |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 12 Dec 2005 2:01 am
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it's one of those deals where you should weigh the pro's to the cons..
you know what you gain..and it's cool..it's a very inspiring change...
but
you loose many many traditional things..
I am of the opinion that you should NOT take away from what you already have..
add to it..
I have the A on the 10th string using the Franklin 4th pedal which on my latest Steel is on the outside 0 pedal position.
One thing I feel you do not want to do is loose the A pedal / F lever combination or intervals.
The knee lever idea above is appropriate.
Or start playing a 12 string...
just my take[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 12 December 2005 at 02:01 AM.] |
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Charlie McDonald
From:
out of the blue
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Posted 12 Dec 2005 4:20 am
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| Quote: |
| Or start playing a 12 string... |
I see Mike Perlowin has a B->A lower on his P1 (B's -> C#'s), so it works with A+B.
Makes sense to me; can be done on a 10 string. |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 12 Dec 2005 5:00 am
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I was just about to write that I lower my 12th string on my U-12 to A when i saw Charlie mentioned it.
It's a VERY cool change, but I use it more to play lead lines in the bass than to play chords.Playing chords that low can sometimes conflict with the bass player.
My ispirations for this are Curly Chalker's solo on "Summertime" from the Giants of Swing album, and a descending run Reece played on the song "He's Coming Back" on his "Universal Direction." Both songs are great examples of playing a lead line in the bass register. |
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MUSICO
From:
Jeremy Williams in Spain
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Posted 12 Dec 2005 5:33 am
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Mike,
I use that same thing on my U12
Pedal A raises two Bs to C#
............AND LOWERS the lowest B to A
also on the Es to Fs lever raise two Es to F
............AND LOWER the lowest E to C#
Both ideas got directly from studying your copedant. Both indispensable and recommendable.
Jeremy Williams
Barcelona Spain |
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David L. Donald
From:
Koh Samui Island, Thailand
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Posted 12 Dec 2005 6:11 am
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Don't ya just wonder...
How many "traditions"
were just the affect of
"mechanical limitations"
of the instruments? |
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Charlie McDonald
From:
out of the blue
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Posted 12 Dec 2005 6:22 am
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... however...
I really like this idea for adapting an S12 for 13ths, with an A bottom.
It's about an easy B triad and resolving the tuning with A+B.
[Note the heresy in eliminating str.7 F#]
This will prove out one way or another, as I've just purchased an MSA Classic S12.
[This message was edited by Charlie McDonald on 12 December 2005 at 06:25 AM.] |
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Al Terhune
From:
Newcastle, WA
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Posted 12 Dec 2005 6:47 am
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Tony,
Once again, I'll point out you don't lose the C#/F intervals because you can use your 9th lower to a C#. That's what's great about all these strings and changes -- if you "lose" something, it most likely can be found somewhere else, albiet a bit different.
That said, everybody should feel confident and comfortable with what they do without pointing out that one's right over the other. That's just not the case. It's what you prefer and fits you best -- or in many cases, what a lot of you have been doing for years, and years and can't see changing it. Change is hard, and nobody's asking you to do it! I simply started this post not saying this was the best way to do it, but to thank those who made the suggestion, because I dig it. I'm not asking those who don't use it to change. Golly!
AL |
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Jerry Hayes
From:
Virginia Beach, Va.
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Posted 12 Dec 2005 7:21 am
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An old friend of mine from the west coast (James O'Rafferty) tuned his 9th string to C# and lowered his 10th string B to A on his "A" pedal and he didn't miss a thing. James was (is) one of the hottest players I've ever heard anywhere! He used to come to places where I was playing and set in for a set on my 12 string with my weird set up and play it like he'd been using that set up his whole life. I've heard that Johnny Cox can do that to, just check to see what's on a steel and then pick the fire out of it.....JH in Va.
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Don't matter who's in Austin (or anywhere else) Ralph Mooney is still the king!!!
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 12 Dec 2005 9:38 am
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Charlie, elimating that middle F# string is a mistake. Trust me in this, it's there for a reason, and whatever advatages you think you may have be elimating it are more than offset by what you'll be missing.
Jeremy, I'm honored that you are using 2 of my 3 bass string changes.
Lowering the 11th string to C# on the E-F raise gives you a bass note for the C# chord that you get with the A pedal and E-raise knee lever.
However, I also lower the 11th string to C# on a seperate knee lever that does not affect the other E strings. This, when used with the A pedal ny itself, creates a root for the C#
minor chord. This is not absolutely necessary, but at times can be very useful.
My copedant requires a triple lower changer. I'm thinking of getting another guitar, and have already elimiated some brands because their changers have only 2 lowers. |
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MUSICO
From:
Jeremy Williams in Spain
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Posted 12 Dec 2005 10:10 am
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Mike,
C# is the IN note this week in copedant discussions. (see my "Reeces 12 string tuning" thread over in nonpeddlers.
I dont have that lower...no.....but I get it when I ocassionally use the lock lever to play B6. As the Es are lowered to Eb then the Es to F lever restores them to E and drops the lowest E to C#. Great sound.
Also I have a dedicated 9th string B to C# lever ¿why? Play a no pedals chord and r'n'r riff at the same time. EB EC# EB EC# instant status quo.
Jeremy Williams
Barcelona Spain |
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Charlie McDonald
From:
out of the blue
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Posted 12 Dec 2005 10:11 am
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| You are not the only one to talk me out of that move, Mike. It's already back in my chart. But the hi F# is GONE. |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 12 Dec 2005 10:53 am
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| Quote: |
| ....the hi F# is GONE. |
Another mistake. DON'T DO IT !!!!!!! |
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Bobby Lee
From:
Cloverdale, California, USA
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Posted 12 Dec 2005 12:24 pm
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Charlie, the ultra-low voicing of A-C#-E will sound like mud. The best chord voicings use wider intervals in the lower registers. That's why the P8 pedal of the C6th gives you A-E-A-C#-E (no low C#).
Put the F# strings back in. Trust us on this one.  |
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