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Topic: 12 string Uni with Day set up Chart needed |
John Davis
From:
Cambridge, U.K.
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Posted 30 Jan 2019 12:34 am |
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Why is it if Jeff Newman played "Day" set up I can only find charts in the Emmons set up? and, if the chart was shown in "Day" set up would that then require placing the other 4 pedals in a different order? I understand Jeff had his Baroom pedal on the 4th pedal in...... correct??
Many thanks for any help  |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 30 Jan 2019 1:22 am
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He played both. Day is better on the uni as the C pedal is out of the way and the A pedal can be useful next to the B6 pedals. As regards the B6 pedals, some players have the splat pedal to the left of "P5" (so named for its function regardless of position) so that they can alternate them easily in sequential chord progressions.
I don't, because A,5 and the vertical is a useful combination and I have the most-used part of the splat (9th string raise to B#) on a lever.
Hope this helps.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Chris Reesor
From:
British Columbia, Canada
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John Davis
From:
Cambridge, U.K.
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Posted 30 Jan 2019 3:47 am
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| Thanks for the response, when you say "the splat pedal" are we talking Baroom that is normally pedal8? |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 30 Jan 2019 6:07 am
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| John Davis wrote: |
| Thanks for the response, when you say "the splat pedal" are we talking Baroom that is normally pedal8? |
Yup. More commonly called the boo-wah pedal.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 30 Jan 2019 6:40 am
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Yes, that is what I meant. Chris, it must have slipped my mind...
The C# on CKR is generally backed off - it's less use than I thought. The important feature is that there is no "P6" but RKR pushes on down to D. Hope I am contributing to John's thread and not hijacking it!
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Posted 30 Jan 2019 9:06 am Jeff's Actual U-12 Copedent
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Pardon the rough look, but this is Jeff's personal U-12 tuning that he used all the time I knew him. The other charts being posted are his tuning charts, not his personal set up. Even the one on b0b's link is a tuning chart, but not Jeff's Day set up.
I met Jeff in 78 or 79, went to his classes and seminars, seen him play countless times. I've never known him to play anything other than this tuning on his personal guitar. Yes, I've seen videos of him playing someone else' guitar and he could sit on your guitar and play it or any guitar tuning practically, but this is his set up.
There are others that knew Jeff much better than me, such as Paul, Randy B., etc. so I would defer to them.
This chart was taken off his Universal video which explains his tuning and reasoning for it concerning lowering E's on RKR, the P4 Boo-wah pedal, etc. It's probably still available somewhere if you want it. The copy I have is on VHS and it plays but it's not very good. You can have it though if you want it. I'd be happy to send it to you John.
Jeff's Day U-12 setup. In the video I have, he says he only lower second string D# to D with his LKL
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John Davis
From:
Cambridge, U.K.
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Posted 30 Jan 2019 10:51 am
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Thank you Jerry that is a very kind offer but I wouldn't want to put you to that much trouble and I could not take having my E's levers anywhere else than my left knee after all this time it would be learning to play all over again too set in my ways now.pass the video to a young guy....it would be better placed.
At least the 12 string Fessy I have just acquired is very easy to change set up on so it will be experimental here for a week or two... |
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Posted 30 Jan 2019 11:01 am
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| You're welcome of course. Your topic title indicated you wanted to see Jeff's personal tuning chart, so that's why I posted the actual tuning he used. There have been others posted that are variations and otherwise incorrect. Just wanted to post his actual personal set up. Cheers. |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 30 Jan 2019 11:52 am
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John's remark reminds me of what I think is a strange situation. At least one maker (GFI) builds a uni 12 with E lowers on LKR as standard. Fine if this is what you're used to, but I don't see how you can be fluent on the B6 pedals with your left knee constrained in this way.
Perhaps someone who uses this setup can explain - I don't see how you can have the E lowers anywhere but RKR.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Pete Burak
From:
Portland, OR USA
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Posted 30 Jan 2019 12:12 pm
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Sierra offered S12U's with E-lowers on LKR for Emmons copedant players. The LKR lever had a "Lock" on it, so you would lower your E's on LKR, lock it in place, then the lever would flip up and out of the way while you played B6.
Or you could just hold it in place like GFI. |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 30 Jan 2019 1:30 pm
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Pete, that Sierra sounds like a good design. But "just hold it in place like GFI" is the bit I can't imagine - how would you achieve your home position on 5 & 6 and then rock off 5 on to 6?
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Chris Reesor
From:
British Columbia, Canada
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Posted 30 Jan 2019 8:15 pm
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My first U12 was a Sierra 8x5 set up as Pete describes with a lock lever. I don't recall what the rest of the copedent was after 30 odd years since I sold the guitar. I didn't make much progress on the sixth tuning or with my next guitar, a Dekley 7x5 U12 either, but I can't really blame that on the copedent but rather on my lack of music theory (and no internet of course). From '97 to '07 I had no steel but had learned a lot more about harmony and theory on guitar, so with my next steel, a 7x5 Carter U12 set up with the E changes on the right a la Newman, it started to come together.
My current guitar is an Excel Superb 8x6 with a lock lever, E changes on the right knee, same as the Carter.
I'm with Ian on this one, Day or Emmons, the best place for the E lowers is RKR.
The E raises are fine on LKL if you play Emmons, if Day they should go on RKL.
Strings 2 and 9 to D work well on LKL.
Another key feature of Newman's uni copedent is the 2nd string down to C# with the E lowers. Pretty useful for sixth stuff as well as some more E9 country moves in conjunction with the string 5 half step lower on strings 1-2-5. It does make a long stiff throw, though.
All in all, Jeff had this stuff figured out pretty well, I'd say.
_________________
Excel Superb U12, MIJ Squier tele, modified Deluxe Reverb RI, Cube 80XL, self built acoustics & mandolins |
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John Davis
From:
Cambridge, U.K.
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Posted 31 Jan 2019 12:26 am
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| Ian I am sure you are 100% correct with where you put your E's lower, my situation made even worse for 12 uni as I play "Day" set up and my E's lower LKL ! But I had a 12 string Mullen here a while back and set it up my way and could still access all the pedals reasonably well, My ex wife says I could get used to hanging if I hung long enough...... |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 31 Jan 2019 1:27 am
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One further note about the string 2 D# to C# lower which most "standard" uni setups put on the same lever as the E lowers. The logic is sound, but then you need another pull somewhere if you want to raise it a half step to get the second scale note when you're on a 13th chord one fret back.
I go the other way round. I tune 2 to C# and raise it to D and D# on the same lever that raises string 9 from B to D. So this is my "E9 lever" in the complementary way to Newman's B6 lever. And no stiff pulls.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Jim Bloomfield
From:
Colorado, USA
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Posted 31 Jan 2019 7:46 am
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| I play a U12 with E's lowered on LKR. Personally I don't have any problems reaching the B6 pedals with it engaged. It seems pretty natural that if your left foot is reaching to the right to hit those pedals your left knee follows and simply holds the lever. |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 31 Jan 2019 11:16 am
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Just because I can't imagine that doesn't mean it isn't possible! A lot depends on what I call personal geometry - how long your legs and feet are, and how flexible your joints.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Bobby D. Jones
From:
West Virginia, USA
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Posted 1 Feb 2019 1:18 pm 12 string Uni with Day setup chart needed
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When I went to a S12 Uni in Dec 2017 I searched and found about 6 or 8 different tunings. I was going from a Day Set up S10 E9th to a 12 Uni.
I have a Jeff Newman U12 video and searched the internet and found his tuning also between video and his copendent I came up with this chart and this is my tuning. The only difference in mine and the previous post is LKL has string 2 going to C# instead of D.
I had played LKL lower E's LKR Raise E's for over 15 years. I switched to RKL Raise and RKL with the Newman copendent. At the age of 73 it took a little thinking an about 2 weeks to get the move into my nero memory. Here is the Jeff Newman copendent I use. With watching Mr. Newman at shows and in his teaching videos I am considering putting the long vertical knee lever on my guitar, He uses it a lot in many licks.
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James Flaherty
From:
California, USA
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Posted 19 Mar 2021 9:40 pm
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| What do the plus and minus numbers refer to? Does it mean to tune sharp or flat of 440 by that amount? |
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James Flaherty
From:
California, USA
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Posted 19 Mar 2021 10:02 pm
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| Also, do these numbers also apply if you're using something other than a Peterson tuner? |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 20 Mar 2021 3:13 am
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| James Flaherty wrote: |
| Also, do these numbers also apply if you're using something other than a Peterson tuner? |
Nothing to do with the Peterson. It is for any tuner that shows you hertz or cents.
Yes, they are the amount of deviation from "0".
This scan gives a graphic (and numerical) view of the offsets. They have changed some over the years. I'm not sure where this particular chart fits in to the evolution of Newman's system.
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James Quackenbush
From:
Pomona, New York, USA
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Posted 20 Mar 2021 6:56 am
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| The Jeff Newman Universal video is the MAJOR reason that I went to U12 and also realized that my left foot rocked naturally if I set up my pedals Day style !....I couldn’t wrap my head around a D10 steel when starting out....Jeff’s video made everything in my head click ...... I play Universal/Day setup to this day.....Jim |
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Bobby D. Jones
From:
West Virginia, USA
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Posted 22 Mar 2021 9:05 pm
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To answer James' question, The number after the notes with Plus Or Minus sign is Cents on a tuner. That is the tuning is above or below 440, It came from Jeff Newman's chart transposing Hertz to Cents.
When I started playing a steel in about 1998 with Knee levers, The man I bought the MSA S10 from gave me a tuning chart for the guitar. It was set up Day System with D Lever Lower E's on LKL, F Lever raise E's on LKR.
With Newman's 12U Tuning C-B-A pedals and the raise on strings 4-8-11 on RKL, And Lower on strings 4-8 RKR are the same tuning. But now on my Right Knee.
Last edited by Bobby D. Jones on 23 Mar 2021 7:27 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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James Quackenbush
From:
Pomona, New York, USA
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Posted 23 Mar 2021 12:32 am
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Bobby,
I think you mean c-b-a don’t you ?...Jim
Funny how you see so many different listings for Jeff Newmans copedant, and his video showed his REAL working copedant that we see here......I’m glad this thread finally surfaced....Jim |
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Bobby D. Jones
From:
West Virginia, USA
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Posted 23 Mar 2021 7:29 pm
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| Thank You James for catching that. It was time to go to bed. |
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