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Topic: How many red Gibson Skylarks were built? |
Noah Miller
From:
Rocky Hill, CT
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Posted 23 Jan 2019 12:01 pm |
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OK, I'm partly here to show off what I snagged today:
I didn't even know this variation existed, but it is described on page 144 of Duchossoir's book. He says they were shipped starting in late 1965, and the shipping totals for Skylarks in 1966 and 1967 total 121 (so that's a minimum). However, given how few pictures there are of these, I'm surprised the number is that high. Does anyone know the actual number built? |
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Jack Hanson
From:
San Luis Valley, USA
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Posted 23 Jan 2019 7:12 pm
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Nice score, Noah. Looks nearly mint. Is that one mahogany like the same era red Centurys?
Most of the early Skylarks were limba. |
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Michael Greer
From:
Ontario, Canada
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Posted 24 Jan 2019 4:38 am
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Noah
Great find....you are a magnet for the rare and unusual guitars.
I have never seen the mahogony version Skylark in person or for sale anywhere
Curious that this model is so "hidden" given the reported production number of 121 in 1966 / 1967.
I suppose we could speculate that those numbers include the delivery of unsold older korina wood models.
Another possiblity perhaps is that the mahogony skylarks were distributed in a concentrated area.?
For example, the National Dynamic N425 Red console (1965 to 1968) pictured below is not seen that frequently on Ebay or the forum for sale.
Yet , in my area they are available for sale on a regular basis.
Reason i believe...the local training academy, the Ontario Conservatory of Music distributed this guitar in the 60's when i was a student.
Great find on the Skylark....will be intetesting to see if any additional mahogony Skylarks surface. |
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Michael Greer
From:
Ontario, Canada
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Posted 24 Jan 2019 4:42 am
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Jack Hanson
From:
San Luis Valley, USA
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Posted 24 Jan 2019 6:50 am
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Nice old Dynamic, Mike.
Is the string spacing at the bridge with that pickup and bridge setup the same as with the Valco string-through pickups? |
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Noah Miller
From:
Rocky Hill, CT
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Posted 24 Jan 2019 7:34 am
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| Jack Hanson wrote: |
Nice score, Noah. Looks nearly mint. Is that one mahogany like the same era red Centurys?
Most of the early Skylarks were limba. |
I haven't seen it in person yet (it should arrive this afternoon), but from the pictures it looks really clean. I believe it is mahogany.
| Michael Greer wrote: |
Curious that this model is so "hidden" given the reported production number of 121 in 1966 / 1967.
I suppose we could speculate that those numbers include the delivery of unsold older korina wood models. |
This was my thinking exactly. On the one hand, I can't argue with shipping figures; on the other, I've seen many more examples of steels that were produced in fewer numbers. |
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Steve Wilson
From:
Morgan Hill, California, USA
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Posted 24 Jan 2019 1:20 pm Limited Production Skylarks
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| I believe one of the more rare skylarks is the Korina model labeled Custom Deluxe that has position dots instead of numbers. I read somewhere just a handful were made. Mine is a 1958, and my buddy has one just like it. Both are from the SF Bay area. |
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Noah Miller
From:
Rocky Hill, CT
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Posted 25 Jan 2019 4:34 am
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Well, it's here. It definitely looks like mahogany rather than korina, and it's very close to being mint. There's just enough light finish checking to ensure it's not a refin. The worst thing I can say is that the pots are slightly stiff (but still functional).
I don't think I've played a Skylark before (of any era), but I know they don't have the best reputation for sustain or tone. The sustain on this one is average, maybe a little below but not dead. The pickup is bright but warms up nicely with the tone rolled back. I actually remember my late-era Century sounding worse - not that either of these are bad instruments, they're just not Gibson's best. This one really shines through an overdriven amp; I tend to prefer weaker pickups in that role. |
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Bill Sinclair
From:
Waynesboro, PA, USA
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Posted 25 Jan 2019 6:07 am
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Cool. How's that red curly cord sound?  |
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Nelson Checkoway
From:
Massachusetts, USA
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Posted 25 Jan 2019 7:07 am
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So cool! Actually never seen another photo of one besides the picture in Duchossoir’s book. And I love that gold lined mid sixties Gibson case! I think that there are very few of this last Skylark model and that the shipping quantities are misleading.
Duchossoir says that the Korina model last shipped in 1965–implying that some of the 65 and all 66 and 67 shipping numbers were the red mahogany version. But go to the Folkways (Canada) website and you’ll see what they’re calling a 1966 Skylark. It’s Korina and it also has “witch hat†knobs that were introduced in mid to late 66. Also consider that the 66 catalogue has the red Century but kept the Korina Skylark.
Put all this together and it’s likely that the red Skylark was not shipped in any significant numbers (if at all) until late 66 or early 67. Another source of confusion could be the repeat use of serial numbers by Gibson. Most Gibson instruments shipped in 1965 had serial numbers in the low 300,000s — but a number of those ranges were duplicated in 1966 and 1967. The earliest red Skylark that Duchossoir says was shipped in 65 may have been released in 66 or 67.
Noah, what’s the serial number on yours? |
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Noah Miller
From:
Rocky Hill, CT
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Posted 25 Jan 2019 7:45 am
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As I recall, the book relied mainly on shipping records. I think everyone else - like Folkways - is relying on serials, and Gibson's serials from the mid-late '60s are messy and not always reliable.
The serial on mine is 253190, which on most lists would be early 1965. I'll have to check the pot codes tonight. |
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Nelson Checkoway
From:
Massachusetts, USA
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Posted 25 Jan 2019 11:52 am
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You’re right — 253XXX is definitely among the lowest 1965 serial numbers. That certainly seems to confirm that they started production in 65. I’m guessing the red and korina models were made and issued side by side as they plowed through the remainder of korina body inventory. Given the diminishing demand that probably took a while.
But great find Noah- that Skylark is a real rare bird!
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Jack Hanson
From:
San Luis Valley, USA
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Posted 25 Jan 2019 1:45 pm
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| Noah Miller wrote: |
| I know they don't have the best reputation for sustain or tone. The sustain on this one is average, maybe a little below but not dead. The pickup is bright but warms up nicely with the tone rolled back. |
I had one of the earlier limba (or "korina," if you will) Skylarks with a 1957 serial number and the larger pickup. Its sustain and tone were mediocre at best. Especially in comparison to my modest gaggle of Gibson Centurys and Ultratones.
I also had a chopped-down Skylark mounting plate and pickup assembly which was installed on a 7-string Ultratone body that I bought for the sole purpose of rehabbing. I installed this pickup in an old Epitome carcass that I purchased solely for its Gibson bridge. That Epitome, with its cobbled-together components, sounded wonderful.
My conclusion is that -- and someone please correct me if I'm way off base on this -- the main contributing factor that results in the Skylark's poor reputation is not its lowly "Melody Maker" pickup, but rather the method that its bridge and strings mount to the metal plate, effectively isolating it from the body itself.
It's basically the same design Freddie & Leo used on Fender's entry level Champ. Although they do have their fans, few would champion the Fender Champ (pardon the pun) as a superior-sounding instrument with excellent sustain. |
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Noah Miller
From:
Rocky Hill, CT
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Posted 25 Jan 2019 2:05 pm
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The pots date to the last week of '64 and the first week of '65, so no help there. Anyone know who Dolly might be?
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Nelson Checkoway
From:
Massachusetts, USA
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Posted 25 Jan 2019 6:56 pm
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The late 64 pot codes and low 1965 serial number corroborate this as an early 1965 instrument. This indicates that the red Skylark came out even before AD’s book suggests. What a great find! Jack has a good point about the role of construction in the tone of Skylarks. I find it puzzling that it replaced the BR-9 in 1957 and essentially was a pickup downgrade from the adjustable and beefier/more desirable P-90. Seems like Gibson was just trying to drive down the price of their student model as much as possible. But they’re cool looking, though IMHO the association that many vintage sellers try to make with Flying Vs and Explorers to jack up the prices is nutty!
By the way the color is really beautiful. It’s that bright cherry red lacquer that got a lot darker on the later 60s Gibson SGs and ES guitars. Great score!! Use your amp, tone control and touch to tweak the sound and Enjoy!! |
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Michael Greer
From:
Ontario, Canada
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Posted 26 Jan 2019 3:06 am
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Bill Groner
From:
QUAKERTOWN, PA
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Posted 26 Jan 2019 4:06 am
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| Michael Greer wrote: |
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Beautiful "set" of finger picks I might add!
_________________
Currently own, 6 Groner-tone lap steels, one 1953 Alamo Lap steel, Roland Cube, Fender Champion 40 |
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Noah Miller
From:
Rocky Hill, CT
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Posted 26 Jan 2019 4:14 am
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| Nelson Checkoway wrote: |
| The late 64 pot codes and low 1965 serial number corroborate this as an early 1965 instrument. |
They really don't. I've seen Gibson serials that are up to three years off the official lists, and the pot codes are just an earliest indicator for assembly. We just know that it wasn't made any earlier than '65. |
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Nelson Checkoway
From:
Massachusetts, USA
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Posted 26 Jan 2019 4:14 pm
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| Good point, Noah, about the SN, pot codes and mfg date. However you slice it, it’s an amazing find. If you Google for Skylark images this model never comes up. Congrats. |
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