Crawford Cluster Knee Lever Question

Steve Mueller · From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA

I'm thinking of purchasing another steel with the Crawford cluster of knees on the E9 left leg. Never had inside and outside knees before. On the LKL, the most used change will be the standard 4 and 8 E's to F. I'm assuming the knee closest to the back of the steel(and the player) would be the rear outside knee. The front inside being the other. Which position should the most used knee lever go on? Probably something that's obvious to most players but I've never had experience with this.
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Earnest Bovine · From: Los Angeles CA USA

I don't know what's "inside" or "outside" but I know the one I use more is further from me.

mtulbert · From: Plano, Texas 75023

It really depends on where you sit and how far under your legs go.

In my situation I have relatively long legs and the E raise lever is the "outer lever" for me. The inner LKL lever raises the 1st string to G and drops the 6th string to F#. I don't use it often but the 7th chord with the pedals down and the lever engaged is handy. I also have the Franklin pedal in the 0 position and that can also be a factor which lever would be the primary lever.

My friend Mickey Adams has his steel set up the opposite of mine. The inner LNL lever drops the E's and the outer lever does secondary pulls for him.

No right or wrong answer; whatever feels best to you.
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Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

Jon Light · From: Saugerties, NY

Having short legs, my primary lever (the E>F raise) is the one closer to me. I lean and stretch a bit to reach the less used front/outside lever. I originally had it the reverse of that but eventually discovered my ergonomic needs.

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

I have short legs too. I can't fing Jean's short enough in my size. I need 28" length, and in my waist size, they only go down to 30". I guess it's more to do with how one sits at their guitar.
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Tiny Olson · From: Mohawk River Valley, Upstate NY

Jimmie was a friend of mine since the mid 70s. What an awesome guy he was. Like Jimmie did, I lower the Es (4 & 8) with my RKL (right-knee-left moving). I have "Emmons Setup" for the pedals.

I've been using a Crawford Cluster (5 E9th levers on the left knee) for many years. I have long legs and all my guitars are 2" taller than standard and because I'm a big guy, the levers are positioned custom. My setup for the cluster on my Emmons LeGrandes, ZumSteels and JCH has been as follows;

LKLF (left-knee-left-front) lowers Bs to Bb (5 & 10). LKLR raises Es to F (4 & 8). LKV (vert.) raises Es to F# (4 & 8). LKRF lowers 6th (G# to F#, has tunable split w/ pedal 2) raises 1st F# to G. LKRR raises 1st F# to G# and 2nd Eb to E. That's the cluster as I use it... not for everyone but it works for me. My RKR lowers 2nd (w 1/2 stop) and 9. My D-10s have 8 & 8 with an added C6th lever.

I've always lowered my Bs with a LKLF. Just much more comfortable for me than the normal vertical most folks prefer. The vert. on my cluster is the lever I use least.

Like Richard said, I think the choice of lever location relates to how the player sits at the guitar,,, probably what we get used to and the physical location of the levers on each individual guitar as well.

I use one less LKR lever on my '69 Emmons Original as the push-pulls are raise dominant... so I have those levers combined into one with 3 changes. I intend to put the "trick split" for the 6th string on the '69 soon.

FWIW

Chris "Tiny" O.

Tyler Hall · From: Mt. Juliet, TN

I have my main changes on the levers closest to my body and the secondary changes on the knees furthest away from me. I've seen guys do it the other way around. I'd say it all depends on how far you sit under the guitar. Find what works best for you. There is no right or wrong.
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Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

I'm interested to see Tiny's left-knee options. While my E9 left-knees aren't quite a 'cluster' (just four) things feel crowded to me.

LKL(F) lowers my Es, LKL(R) raises 1,2 and 7, LKV lowers 10 to a G# (currently, anyway - it's good in theory but physically difficult to use) and LKR raises my Es.

I suppose I sit at something of an angle (centred at fret 15) and my left leg is almost at 45 degrees to the guitar. For me, a second left-knee moving right wouldn't be operable.

As you can see, I'm a 'Day' player.

(My B to Bb - a most important pull for me - is RKL (I also lower 10 to an A on this lever) and RKR is the standard 2 and 9 lower.)
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Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, Quilter TT-12 & TT-15, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

Roger...

From past threads here on the forum, I would think most players are centered at the 15th feet. That is the fret most recommended here. I center more towards the 17th fret.

I think it's mostly how far one sits away from the back of the guitar. I sit fairly close. Then, throw in the physical position of the levers.
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Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting.

Dale Rottacker · From: Walla Walla Washington, USA

For me, and I think this came from starting out on early 70's Pro lll's. There was an expanse of space under those guitars with the LKL WELL into the guitar. So thats what became THE feel for me. I wanted the stagger closest to me and LKL raising the E's which is an easy quick pull anyhow to just catch it basically with my knee-cap.

At one point I got a guitar where the E raise was on the back apron and perhaps I didn't give it enough but ended up moving it forward, swapping it with my stagger. For whatever that is worth.
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David Wren · From: Placerville, California, USA

Nice thread.

I also noticed another thread in this section asking whether to order a S or SD body for a 12 string?

These "clusters", or "staggered" left knee levers could use the deeper body of the SD frame. With that said, my older Carter is a single body frame.

The other thing I noticed, is many of the forum members using these multiple LK levers have been playing for quite a while.... like myself, and indeed when I started playing I never saw the word "standard" used for knee levers. Guess time marches on Smile

My U 12 setup is:
LKLF: Es-> Fs; LKRF:4th string E-> F# (no "C" pedal)
and 7th F#-> F; LKLR: 1st string F#->G#, 2nd string Eb->E and 7th string F#->G..... LKRR replaces the 7th pedal on the 6th tuning (to avoid double feet on pedals).

The LKV lowers the Es->Eb... and I have a lock on that lever.

I know, that's a lot, but it works for me Smile

I just ordered a Willams U12, and am considering switching the Bs->Bb to the LKV, and lowering the Es on RKR...
Mainly to make it easier for my kids to sell the new guitar after I'm gone Smile

Since I have no "C" pedal, my first, or "0" pedal lowers my G#s->G.
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Dave Wren
'96 Carter U12,7X7; 1936 7 string National; Line 6 HX Stomp; Quilter TT-15/TB202; Quilter "Steelaire"; DV Mark "GH 250"with 15" 1501 BW; Boss "Katana" 100 Head w/Line 6 Cab; Telonics VP.

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