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Topic: iStrobosoft PSG Tuning Sweetener - bad result |
Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
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Posted 16 Dec 2018 12:43 pm |
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I downloaded the the app and the sweetener to my iPad and connected up using the Peterson adapter cable. Proceeded tuning the open strings using SE9. I thought things were sounding funny while tuning, but I just went ahead and did all ten strings anyway.
Holy crap what a horrible sound!
I thought I must have done something wrong, so I went through the process again, same result. Tried the EM9, not much better.
Does anyone else use this app? What am I missing? This sweetener produces the sourest tuning I could possibly imagine. |
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Paul Stauskas
From:
DFW, TX
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Posted 16 Dec 2018 12:47 pm
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Fred, first check to see if you have a reference pitch that is different than A 440 Hz or that you have some frequency (cents) offset enabled.
If that is not the case, then you may want to try creating your own setting instead of the using the presets. I went this route.
_________________
My site |
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Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
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Posted 16 Dec 2018 2:11 pm
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Nope, no temperament offset. Pretty disappointing to spend the extra$ for something that appears to be useless.
I am interested in setting up my own sweetener scheme though. I think the first step for that is creating an account with Peterson? |
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Jon Schimek
From:
Lyons, Co - USA
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Posted 17 Dec 2018 10:02 am
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I'm Surprised to hear this. Ping the Peterson support folks. They have been very responsive to me in the past.
I've personally had good experiences with the sweetners in the stomp box, but I was too cheap to buy the sweetner pack.
-Jon
_________________
MSA Vintage-XL, Pre-RP Mullen
Nashville 400 w/blackbox, Space Echo. |
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Ben Waligoske
From:
Denver, CO
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Posted 19 Dec 2018 12:24 pm
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I’ve used every version of the SE9 sweetened offsets: the stompbox/leg clamp tuners, clip on tuners, the Mac/PC app, and my iPhone. Never had any issues. It’s possible you may just not be a “sweetened†guy... in which case equal (straight up) temperament may be your thing.
It’s also possible that if you had your pedal/knee lever changes adjusted to compensate for whatever tuning you were previously using, that now with the open “sweetened†offsets, your mechanical changes are now out of whack. There is a preset on Peterson’s to tune that as well, “SP9†if I’m not mistaken - so you’d tune open to SE9, then switch to SP9. I’ve never even had to go that far, but it’s an option...
I highly doubt anything is wrong with your unit, more likely it’s either you prefer to hear and play under equal temperament or need to adjust some pedals etc... |
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Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
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Posted 19 Dec 2018 1:10 pm Problem solved. Yaaayyy!
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Tip of the day for iPad users: Use iStrobosoft in PORTRAIT MODE!
I don’t know why that wouldn’t be stressed in a basic users’ manual, but it isn’t. Big thank you to Marshall Johns at Peterson for helping me out. Everything works great now.
Ben, I am a totally sweetened kinda guy  |
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Leo Grassl
From:
Madison TN
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Posted 20 Dec 2018 11:27 am
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Fred,
Glad you got it figured out and that is very valuable information for iPad users!
Ben, for what it's worth, in general if one does not like Petersons "sweeteners" that does not mean they automatically like to tune straight up. "Sweetened" is just a matter of how one tunes outside of "straight up" and there are many ways. |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 20 Dec 2018 1:33 pm
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How many tune by ear? Am I totally alone?
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 20 Dec 2018 1:37 pm
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| Ian Rae wrote: |
| How many tune by ear? Am I totally alone? |
Nope  |
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Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
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Posted 20 Dec 2018 3:59 pm
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| Ian Rae wrote: |
| How many tune by ear? Am I totally alone? |
Two years into playing pedal steel, my ear is still getting used to how the offsets work and their effect on harmonics.
“Tuning out the beats†doesn’t work, at least not on my guitar. If it does on yours, more power to you. The Peterson SE9 “sweetening“ doesn’t come close to tuning out the harmonic beats. I do not believe it was meant to. On the other hand, the SE9 setting seems a little extreme to me, and I have gone back to using my own offsets already.
I find myself tuning up in noisy environments where tuning by ear would be impossible, even with headphones. And tuning by ear without headphones would probably get me shot in some of the places I play. Electronic tuners have been a godsend for me over the last 30 years. |
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Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 20 Dec 2018 6:02 pm
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| Fred Treece wrote: |
| Two years into playing pedal steel, my ear is still getting used to how the offsets work and their effect on harmonics. |
You mean; your ear hasn't gotten used to the relationship between harmonics and fractions? Unless one tunes/play ET it is all about fractions anyway – cents only show relationship/deviation from ET in an "easy to understand" form.
| Fred Treece wrote: |
| “Tuning out the beats†doesn’t work, at least not on my guitar. |
Tuning out all beats doesn't work for all chords/positions on any steel guitar (or other instruments). It is a question of tuning out some beats on a specific guitar (yours) with a specific tuning, so as to let you play out, or on, the other beats on-the-fly.
Tuning apps are useful at times – in certain situations. But, as what matters is to play in tune with whoever, focusing on bar control (horizontally and vertically), and timing, brings results once the music starts. |
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John Goux
From:
California, USA
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Posted 20 Dec 2018 9:47 pm
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On a recent vaycay I brought along a mandolin and forgot my tuner.
I tuned each string pair beatless to the adjacent 5th. I did this carefully in a quiet room.
To my surprise, the mandolin tuning was not good. Sounded sour.
Once I got a tuner, my mandolin tuning was fine.
From this I learned that in ET, the 5th are not beatless. That’s my theory, anyway.
I have developed my own tuning system, and I have beatless 5ths in my chords. The tuning varies by guitar, based in their amount of cabinet drop. It is a simple system that is closer to keyboards than the Newman or Peterson sweetened tunings.
Not all my chords are perfectly in tune, but the major ones are very good. I like to have beatless 5ths in my major and minor chords.
The less cabinet drop a guitar has, the easier it is to sound in tune with straight up tuned keyboard or guitar tracks.
John |
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Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
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Posted 20 Dec 2018 11:03 pm
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| I appreciate all the insight, some of which I actually understand... Bottom line is I am happy to have the app now that I know how to use it. |
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Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 21 Dec 2018 3:07 am
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| Fred Treece wrote: |
| I appreciate all the insight, some of which I actually understand... |
| Fred Treece wrote: |
| Bottom line is I am happy to have the app now that I know how to use it. |
Always good to know how things work…
https://www.kylegann.com/tuning.html
| John Goux wrote: |
On a recent vaycay I brought along a mandolin and forgot my tuner.
I tuned each string pair beatless to the adjacent 5th. I did this carefully in a quiet room.
To my surprise, the mandolin tuning was not good. Sounded sour.
Once I got a tuner, my mandolin tuning was fine.
From this I learned that in ET, the 5th are not beatless. That’s my theory, anyway. |
Correct, not only in theory.
Nothing but whole-octave intervals (naturally) can be tuned beatless in ET, and all else will sound, and be, off from all natural (JI) intervals. ET looks good on tuners though, and has the advantage of working equally well/bad/whatever everywhere. |
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Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
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Posted 21 Dec 2018 12:21 pm
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Clearly stated information that I have been aware of for some time. At this point in my life, I file stuff like that in the “Don’t Really Use It†department of my brain, subcategory “It’s Okay To Forgetâ€, section A: “Make Room For Something Else That Might Be On The Testâ€. |
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John Goux
From:
California, USA
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Posted 22 Dec 2018 12:27 am
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Thanks Georg.
Now I know it wasn’t the altitude!
Looks like a beatless 5th is 2 cents sharp of ET, at least in the key of C. I tried this on the Peterson and it sounds solid.
This means my mandolin, tuned to beatless 5ths, will have the open G and 1st string G about 7 cents sharp, not a harmonious octave.
Fred, thanks for the patience with the quick diversion. Glad you got the app working.
Happy Holidays everyone.
John |
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Jim Palenscar
From:
Oceanside, Calif, USA
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Posted 23 Dec 2018 8:41 am
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John- you probably forgot to include the cabinet drop of your mandolin  |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 23 Dec 2018 11:10 am
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| Jim Palenscar wrote: |
| John- you probably forgot to include the cabinet drop of your mandolin |
I dropped a mandolin off a cabinet once. Couldn't find a single sweetener to make it sound good after that. 
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 1 Jan 2019 7:04 am
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| Georg Sørtun wrote: |
| ...Tuning out all beats doesn't work for all chords/positions on any steel guitar (or other instruments). It is a question of tuning out some beats on a specific guitar (yours) with a specific tuning, so as to let you play out, or on, the other beats on-the-fly. |
That's kinda where I'm at. I tune mostly JI, and some things don't sound that good. But the things that are "in" just sound so sweet and pure, and that's the sound I strive for. So, I resolved just to not play certain chords and positions, or not to sustain them long because they sound "off". My own narrow mind tells me it's better to use fewer chords and positions and have them sound in perfect tune than it is to play far more chords and positions with absolutely none of them sounding in perfect tune.
As always, YMMV. |
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