My 12 String Extended E9 Copedent

Dennis Montgomery · From: Western Washington

Hi all!

Back in July when I started a thread about receiving my new Mullen G2 SD-12, my good friend Mike Perlowin asked how I planned to set it up. Since this is my first 12 string, at the time I wasn't sure, but after several months of working with it I've come up with this unusual copedent that's working very well and feels comfortable to me.

My copedent is based on what I call the core of extended Emmons E9. So the question is why would someone who mostly plays progressive rock and classical choose Emmons E9 as the heart of their copedent? I should say first that while I highly respect country pedal steelers, I'm not into country music (though I am a big fan of the playing Jerry Garcia, Al Perkins, Sneaky Pete, John McFee and others added to some of my favorite 60's/70's rock albums). So why would I choose Emmons E9 instead of a completely different approach? Well, because Mike calls it the "Mozart tuning", b0b has repeatedly said it can do anything and many others here say E9 is entirely capable of any style, even though it's mostly associated with country. It's crazy how much I've learned from this forum so when everyone I respect is telling me, "don't reinvent the wheel, start with extended E9 and see where it takes you", I listened Winking

Another big plus is I can still learn a lot from E9 educational books and videos. For example, I have the "100 Hot Licks for Pedal Steel" book and I can play about 65 of them with my setup.

When I got my Fender 400 a few years ago and created my own copedent I learned a valuable lesson. That setup is an absolute chord machine, they're everywhere which is great! Unfortunately, they don't have the magic of E9 because you can't slide the same grip up to different inversions of the same chord. I love that E9 provides 3 major and 3 minor triad inversions on the same grip the 1st 12 frets to play/slide into. The changes that I made to the extended E9 tuning allow me to do the same thing with several other string grips. More chord positions mean more choices for arranging melody lines with their underlying chords.

So my idea was to begin with this core of Emmons extended E9 and branch out from there. This means strings 3-6,8,10,12, pedals A,B,C and the E raise and E drop knee levers are Emmons extended E9. Things go outside that with different string 9 & string 1 tuning as well as the 4, 5, 7 pedals and right knees.

As far as the 4, 5 & 7 pedals and right knees are concerned...

Below is the standard 3-6,8,10,12 grip we all know along with what I call the 1236 grip which also gives me 3 major and 3 minor triad inversions to choose from on those strings as well. The main reason the 1236 grip works is I changed string 1 from F# to C. I decided giving up the F# was worth it to get many more chordal position options. I tried various gauges and found .014 works the best. When I used heavier gauges, string 1 would overpower string 3 on 1236 chords and the highest note of the chord would get lost in the mix.

Pedal 4 simply flats all my G#'s to G's so I have a matching minor triad at the same fret positions as the 3-6,8,10,12 major triad grips. Very handy.

Pedal 5 teams up with pedal 4 (which I often double pedal) and my right knees to get my 3 major & minor triads on the 1236 grip.

Pedal 4 also works with my right knees to give me a diatonic 7th scale up the neck in 2 grips an octave apart (2-3-4-5, 9-10-11-12). I got that idea from studying Sneaky Pete's 8 string tuning where the upper 4 strings were an octave higher match of the lower 4 Winking

I also tune my string 9 to D# for a couple reasons. First, so strings 2-3-4-5 match the same notes as 9-10-11-12 so my "2 grips an octave apart" thing works. Second, with string 9 a D# I can easily use my right knee to flat the 7th tone a half step to get a dominant 7 (or minor 7 adding pedal 4), or I can raise it a half step to resolve to the octave. Sounds especially great playing deep chords on the 4 lowest strings.

Pedal 7 has one major function at this point and that's to give me my 3 major & minor triad inversions on what I call the 'odd string grip' (aka 975 though I also include string 2 in there for an extended range).
As an added bonus, pedal 7 does provide another melody note option on string 1 and a really cool sus4 on the 1236 grip Smile

So why did I leave pedal 6 out and put that change on pedal 7? I'd been playing a 5 pedal version of the tuning for a couple months and was getting pretty good finding the correct pedal without peeking too much Winking

I left a gap for pedal 6 so I could still have the group of 5 I've gotten comfortable with. Also I double pedal 4 & 5 and having them on the end makes them easy to find.

I have a 2 octave major scale at any bar position as well.

Another unique thing is the temperament. I have a Peterson Strobo Tuner and the default sweeteners sounded awful on any grips outside the E9 3-6,8,10,12, especially the pedal 4 minors and the 1236 grip chords. b0b came to the rescue and suggested a meantone tuning centered on F# which solved the problem. To make things even easier, I went to the Peterson website and created then downloaded the meantone F# into my tuner. I really like that I don't have to change sweeteners (open vs pedal) to tune the whole instrument.

So what does this sound like? Mike Perlowin once told me that people often come up with new copedents that make logical sense on paper, but never put them into practice and record anything with them making them exercises in math and logic rather than ways to create music...in other words, pretty useless. Not wanting to fall into that trap, I wanted to share my very first recording of this copedent on youtube. It's an arrangement of the George Harrison - Beatles White Album song, "Long Long Long" you can check it out here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOIpHVQbAmg

Yes it's pitchy...yes my volume pedal technique is pretty awful...yes my picking is pretty uneven...and I buzz a low note at the worst possible time, but I've only been playing E9 and a 12 string for 4 months so I'm happy with it Smile

And a special shout out to the team at Mullen for creating an instrument that is incredibly easy to work on. I've literally added pedals or moved bellcranks around, retuned and was back in action in a matter of minutes Very Happy

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Hear my latest album, "Celestial" featuring a combination of Mullen SD12 and Synthesizers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhh6b_xXTx4&list=PLfXm8aXRTFz0x-Sxso0NWw493qAouK

Hear my album, "Armistice" featuring Fender 400 on every song:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLfXm8aXRTFz2Pz_GXhvmjne7lPEtsplyW

Hear my Pedal Steel Only playlist featuring Mullen G2 SD12 on covers like Candyman, Wild Horses, Across the Universe & more...
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLfXm8aXRTFz2f0JOyiXpZyzNrvnJObliA

Tom Gorr · From: Three Hills, Alberta

Most interesting to me right now is the D# instead of the D. I am getting more use out of the traditional s9 D lately on E9 even though it was a significant encumberance when I first began playing. Which is one major reason why I preferred playing an E9/B6 Uni.

However, because I prefer my E- and E+ levers on opposite knees, I find I often want a C# instead of a D but cannot access the lever when E- is engaged both being on RK.

Every coped offers something and takes something away it seems. I might tune s9 up to a D# just to see if it is a plus or minus.

Tom Gorr · From: Three Hills, Alberta

Pretty darn good for a newbie first arrangement.

Your Mullen has a really vibey tone.. Will be a very satisfying guitar.

If rock is your thing, don't forget it is heavily based on the pentatonic scale(s) with some blues passing tones.

The C6 with a middle D and a few non jazz E9they pedal changes might be a good fit as well. I think b0b used to have something like that. May even try tuning s9 as a c# rather than d# to get a sense of having both a 6 and 9 in the base tuning.

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

Your 1st string C baffles me. Most people get those 3 notes from their 5th string. I'd really feel handicapped without the high F# string.

You might consider lowering your 10th string to C# on your F lever. I had that change for many years and found it very useful in all kinds of music. Learned from Winnie Winston.
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Dennis Montgomery · From: Western Washington

Dennis Montgomery · From: Western Washington

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

A low C# on string 12 would be the root of the C#7 chord that is created with the F lever. Most music is arranged with the root of the chord, not the 3rd, as the lowest note.

I also lowered string 12 to D on my C pedal for another low "power chord" with the B+C combination. I tried raising it to F# for a while but didn't find a lot of uses for that.

Thanks for explaining the logic of your 1st string. I would never have thought of that.
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Dennis Montgomery · From: Western Washington

1) Ah yes, I do see the F lever C#7 with the string 12 root...nice. Unfortunately, I'd be giving up both my LO(aka F)-RO 9-10-11-12 grip diminished 7th and also the low 3rd of my LO-A major triad in the standard 12-10-8-6-5-4-3 grip. Of course I do agree that most things are arranged with the lowest root, but I like the ambiguity of inversions for a different flavor. I started out as a little kid playing keyboards years before I ever picked up a guitar so I always think in that framework. Is A-C-E an Am, C6 or Am/E? All of the above...depending Smile

2) As far as the low F# on pedal C, I love it because it gives me the 2nd tone of the single bar position major scale beginning on string 12. And sweeping across C-B-A for the major scale is fun Winking

C. D. Maclean · From: Scotland

Very interesting copedent and description. I'm just glad it wasn't there when I was deciding how to set up my ext E9- too many good ideas!
I'm with bOb on the low C# on 12. A very powerful change and makes for some great movement in the bass as you swap inversions. I've also got a 0 pedal that raises all the E's to F# which is a really useful tool for pentatonics. I find when soloing that I'm rocking between 0 and A almost as much as between A and B.

Cheers
Calum

ajm · From: Los Angeles

Dennis, a change that I don't see too often is:

Pedal C, raise string 8 from E to F#.

That will give another way to get a minor chord using B and C pedals.
Yes, I know that the F# is on an open adjacent string, but it's not quite the same.

Dennis Montgomery · From: Western Washington

Thanks C.D. and ajm for the ideas Smile

C.D. I haven't gotten around yet to playing with pentatonic scale positions so there's still a chance I might need to make adjustments like you suggested.

ajm I originally was using 'C' to raise string 8 to F# instead of string 12 for the same reason you suggested. I moved to string 12 instead because I already had 4 positions to play the minor inversion and wanted that F# raise on string 12 to play the major scale without moving the bar (or making a jump to string 8C for the 2nd scale tone).

I suppose I could always get another bellcrank and put 4 pulls on 'C' putting both of your suggestions into play Winking

_________________
Hear my latest album, "Celestial" featuring a combination of Mullen SD12 and Synthesizers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhh6b_xXTx4&list=PLfXm8aXRTFz0x-Sxso0NWw493qAouK

Hear my album, "Armistice" featuring Fender 400 on every song:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLfXm8aXRTFz2Pz_GXhvmjne7lPEtsplyW

Hear my Pedal Steel Only playlist featuring Mullen G2 SD12 on covers like Candyman, Wild Horses, Across the Universe & more...
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLfXm8aXRTFz2f0JOyiXpZyzNrvnJObliA

John McClung · From: Olympia WA, USA

Dennis, don't know how well this screen shot of my next extended E9 copedent will hold up posting here, I can email you a PDF for a clear view.

I thought long and hard about how I tend to play, things that bug me about my normal copedent when playing, and now have Lynn Stafford working on setting this up on a Zum S12 for me.

Lots of experiments and ideas you might find useful, with many notes to both Lynn and myself below the chart on what things are intended for.

I live near Olympia and Tumwater, where are you? I play a pre-RP Mullen D12 at home, 9 pedals, 10 levers. Maybe we can get together to jam sometime.

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b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

Mad scientists at work here. Laughing

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Dennis Montgomery · From: Western Washington

Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

This thread shows us that the steel still has many still-unexplored possibilities. Tuning the 1sr string to C is certainly unorthodox, but maybe Dennis has discovered something everybody else has missed.

The steel gas evolved from 6 strings, to 8, to 10 to 12, to 14. Perhaps in the future we will see them with 15 0r 16 or more strings, with more tunings that have not yet been invented.
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Dennis Montgomery · From: Western Washington

So after a couple months of arranging Beatle songs for my odd take on Extended E9, I've learned some important lessons and made some adjustments.

First, I learned b0b was right that not having F# on string 1 would be a challenge. Sorry Mike, guess my idea wasn't as revolutionary as we hoped Smile

The first clue came when I was arranging the Beatles song 'Good Night' and the vocal melody fell naturally on string 1. I found other ways to play it, but nothing sounded nearly as nice.

Then I took a quick shot at some other arrangements and found the same thing so I decided to end my experiment of string 1 as 'C'. Oh well, live and learn. While I gave up a whole set of wonderful string 1-2-3 major and minor inversions, it's proven well worth it for the advantages of more easily carrying the melody above the supporting chords at the same bar/fret positions.

I did leave my only other non E9 standard string 9 as the major 7th rather than the dominant 7th. Besides, I use my right outside knee to drop it a half step when necessary. Tuning string 9 to the open major 7th also makes a totally new grip set work. With my P5, P7 and right knees I now have 3 major inversions, 3 minor inversions, a major7, 7, m7 and dim & aug chords on strings 10-9-7-5-2-1. I like this a lot because it gives me a nice alternative grip set to the usual 10-8-6-5-4-3 E9. Also, because P5/P7 seem to work together so well, I'll likely move P5 to P6 as it makes more sense to group them together.

Second, like some who play extended E9, I was using the F lever to raise strings 4-8-12 a half step. I recalled b0b had mentioned instead he dropped the low E to C# like Winnie Winston. I gave it a try and love it. Especially cool is 12-11-10 FA and that super low root-5-root chord. Since I don't play in a band but do solo arrangements, I don't have to worry about stepping on anyone and this helps me take up a little more sonic space Smile

Third, I'm now tuning down to Extended D9. Couple weeks ago I snapped a 3rd string. Put on a replacement and snapped it in a few minutes. Put on another and that one snapped across the top of my middle finger drawing blood Mad

Since the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results, and each string was snapping at the tuning peg, I luckily remembered there was an instructional video on the Mullen site specifically for winding string 3 so followed that and all was good. Even still, this started me thinking about several posts on the forum from players who tune down to D saying how much they like it and rarely break strings so decided to give it a try. I love Extended D9. Haven't changed the strings yet so still using downtuned E9 gauges which I'll likely fatten up a bit soon. First one I'll change is the low D as dropping it with the F lever to B makes it pretty bouncy, but it holds it's tuning remarkably well so cheers to the wizards at Mullen Winking

So here's the current copedent with a tip of the hat to b0b and the forum for great feedback and Mullen for making a beautiful instrument that's so easy to work on!

_________________
Hear my latest album, "Celestial" featuring a combination of Mullen SD12 and Synthesizers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhh6b_xXTx4&list=PLfXm8aXRTFz0x-Sxso0NWw493qAouK

Hear my album, "Armistice" featuring Fender 400 on every song:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLfXm8aXRTFz2Pz_GXhvmjne7lPEtsplyW

Hear my Pedal Steel Only playlist featuring Mullen G2 SD12 on covers like Candyman, Wild Horses, Across the Universe & more...
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLfXm8aXRTFz2f0JOyiXpZyzNrvnJObliA

Reed Ohrbom · From: Hemet, California, USA

Lots to learn and love in this thread. As a long time 6 string acoustic and electric guitar player, definite Beatles devotee, classic rock, alt-country, etc. guy, (did I mention Emmylou Harris?) and now starstruck PSG beginner with a Mullen Pre RP SD12 Ext E9, I have a lot in common with the OP, and so was very happy (can I say "stoked"?) to find this thread.

Kicking it back to the top. Will be studying it in depth, and maybe some new comments will be added as well??

Thanks to everyone who posted, past and future!!
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Mullen PreRP SD-12, Ext-E9; Various 6 string Electrics & Acoustics; "Making Believe"

Dennis Montgomery · From: Western Washington

Wow, this post was definitely a blast from the past! Turns out I didn’t stay with this specific copedent for very long. As I continued what I now think of as my apprenticeship - which was three years of arranging 20+ Grateful Dead, Beatles, and other songs I got closer aligned with a more standard Emmons tuning. When it comes to arrangements where the chord and melody line ideally live on the same fret position, I was pleasantly surprised how well it fit the "rock" arrangements I was doing.

The first change from what I posted in this thread was reverting to the standard Emmons tuning of the 12 strings. The second was dropping from extended E9 to extended D9. The third was adding a vertical knee lever dropping strings five and 10 a 1/2 step (and raising them a 1/2 step split tuned with the A pedal). The fourth was adding the half step on string 2's RKR lever. The final change was splitting the E's.

That’s not to say that I don’t have some non-standard things still in my setup. For example I use LKR to drop the major thirds to a minor third. I love having that on a knee. Also on my fourth pedal I have a half stop on string 4 so in combo with LKR I can easily play major 7ths, minor 7ths and dominant 7ths on the standard 10-8–6–5–4–3 grip. I know there are other ways to get those, but when it comes to arrangements where I like the chords and melody to live on the same fret, the more options the better Smile

This is the tuning that I’ve settled into for the last couple years and I'm very comfortable with it. I don't feel I wasted time experimenting with different copedents, I learned a lot - and thanks Mullen for such an easy instrument to set up and work on!

It's funny, it didn't really matter how many times I read Emmons E9 could play just about anything, I had to learn it myself doing all those arrangements Winking

_________________
Hear my latest album, "Celestial" featuring a combination of Mullen SD12 and Synthesizers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhh6b_xXTx4&list=PLfXm8aXRTFz0x-Sxso0NWw493qAouK

Hear my album, "Armistice" featuring Fender 400 on every song:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLfXm8aXRTFz2Pz_GXhvmjne7lPEtsplyW

Hear my Pedal Steel Only playlist featuring Mullen G2 SD12 on covers like Candyman, Wild Horses, Across the Universe & more...
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLfXm8aXRTFz2f0JOyiXpZyzNrvnJObliA

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

Did you stay in a D9th tuning, Dennis? Or did you raise it back up to E9th?
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Dennis Montgomery · From: Western Washington

Hi b0b,

I've stayed in D9, E meantone temperament Winking

_________________
Hear my latest album, "Celestial" featuring a combination of Mullen SD12 and Synthesizers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhh6b_xXTx4&list=PLfXm8aXRTFz0x-Sxso0NWw493qAouK

Hear my album, "Armistice" featuring Fender 400 on every song:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLfXm8aXRTFz2Pz_GXhvmjne7lPEtsplyW

Hear my Pedal Steel Only playlist featuring Mullen G2 SD12 on covers like Candyman, Wild Horses, Across the Universe & more...
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLfXm8aXRTFz2f0JOyiXpZyzNrvnJObliA

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