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Topic: Fret marker strip |
Justin Schack
From:
New Jersey, USA
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Posted 18 Nov 2018 12:12 pm |
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| Does anyone know where I can get one of those strips I’ve seen some online teachers use to mark fret numbers on the fretboard? Runs along the edge, from first to last fret. Not sure if it’s a sticker or just something that rests on the board. I sure I could rig one up fairly easily but they may also be available ready-made. Searched the forum but couldn’t find anything. |
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Kevin Fix
From:
Michigan, USA
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Posted 18 Nov 2018 12:56 pm
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| Ebay. I seen them there. Look under "pedal Steel Guitar" |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 18 Nov 2018 6:32 pm
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In a word...Don't! Putting labels or pasties on a guitar may seem helpful, but it just leads to making you lazy. I've seen dozens of 'em used down through the years, and I've come to the conclusion that you really need to develop and use your memory, or you won't get very far on this instrument.
Frets 1 (the nut, really) through 12, markers at 3, 5, 7, 9, and 12 (the first octave). Then, everything just repeats.
See...that wasn't so hard, was it?  |
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John Goux
From:
California, USA
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Posted 19 Nov 2018 1:15 pm
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I’ve heard many accomplished steelers complain about not being able to see the fret markers when playing up above the 15th fret. Ascending, and descending is even worse, because your hand blocks the fret markers.
Even a single marker on the front side of the neck, or on the deck in front of the neck, would go a long ways to giving the player visual reference over your hand.
Just because Buddy could nail it while looking around the room doesn’t mean the rest of us mortals have to go without visual reference.
I’m surprise there isn’t a product out there.
John |
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Franklin
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Posted 19 Nov 2018 2:21 pm
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John Goux,
By learning to properly handle the bar as has been taught since the 30's, seeing the frets is easily accomplished for anyone, even the beginner, the frets are all that is needed....
Too many crutches hinder players from being able to run. How a steel is played by legends is not mystery, its mastery...And everyone willing to focus and practice correctly as they did can master this instrument. You do yourself a disservice by assuming someone like whoever who is playing great has some kind of special gift....Not true...You are just witnessing well studied musicians...
I have not seen you play so I can't help you any farther but nailing your exact problem except to say if you need markers you probably don't use the right size bar for your physicality and/or you haven't learned to maintain eyesight with your front of the bar..The thumb should never span the length of the bar...If it does? get a longer bar.....Watch the Lloyd interviews and notice how he is using the bar pulling back for lower strings etc...That's a better way than putting a strip which is adding a crutch into your learning process.
Paul |
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John Goux
From:
California, USA
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Posted 19 Nov 2018 4:32 pm
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There is nothing like getting spanked by one of the all time greats! And one of my musical heros to boot.
Paul, I can’t possibly disagree with your advice.
I’ll just say of the issues I have playing this instrument, I don’t think my bar hand is a problem. I’ve watched your instructional videos and those of all the major players, and I would call my left hand, “traditional/conventionalâ€.
I’ve practiced the bar hand exercises you laid out on this website, and I feel pretty good about it. I’ve actually been teased by some excellent players for my fearlessness in the high register.
If you want me to post a video for you to critique, I’d love that.
I’m 5’11†and use a BJS 3 1/4 by 15/16â€.
When one plays John Hughey’s solo to Look At Us, you go up to fret 23, and then descend to 21 and then down to fret 18. If you are dragging your fingers in proper technique, or lifting them for more resonance, they still block your visibility of the markers in the middle of the fingerboard.
I’d love to hear a solution/advice on this high register visibility issue.
My opinion, insignificant compared to yours, is that a single fret marker at fret 19, visible over the top of the bar hand, would be an option some players may want. It would be no more a crutch than the marker in the middle of the fingerboard. Just more visible when descending from HugheyLand.
If I was to join your instructional program, it would be for my right hand accuracy and muting. That is my personal Achilles heel on this instrument.
Ofcourse Buddy was a well schooled musician. But he was also a genius. Same with Lloyd. You may be in the same category.
John |
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Lee Baucum
From:
McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier
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Posted 19 Nov 2018 4:54 pm
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How about an upright fretboard?
Click Here |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 19 Nov 2018 8:05 pm Always be looking ahead!
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| John Goux wrote: |
...When one plays John Hughey’s solo to Look At Us, you go up to fret 23, and then descend to 21 and then down to fret 18. If you are dragging your fingers in proper technique, or lifting them for more resonance, they still block your visibility of the markers in the middle of the fingerboard.
I’d love to hear a solution/advice on this high register visibility issue... |
Look, I'm no genius at this stuff, and certainly not a great player, but I really don't think we have to reinvent the wheel at this point.
Remember...you can always see the frets near the end of the bar! So, if you're at 23, going to 21 means going down 2 frets. (You don't have to see markers to figure this out!) And in like fashion, going from 21 to 18 simply means going down 3 frets. Again, look at the end of the bar, see where you are, and go down 3 frets. It works even easier going up - you look at where you're going, first, and move the bar to that spot. (It may help to look not at the marker, but at the fret above the marker, since that's where you'll be playing, anyway.)
If you come to rely on "crutches", then you're automatically precluding yourself from trying another guitar, let alone playing someone else's guitar for a song or two (or a set or two).
And who wants to miss out on that?  |
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Don Kuhn
From:
Poetry/Terrell ,Texas, USA
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Posted 19 Nov 2018 8:42 pm
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| It just amazes me how Paul, Donnie and Lee will jump in to help folks that are having some type of problem gives me great respect for them that they hadn't forgot where they came from as we all had to lear to crawl before we could walk. Thanks gentlemen for your input. |
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Charlie McDonald
From:
out of the blue
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Posted 20 Nov 2018 5:11 am
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| Lee Baucum wrote: |
How about an upright fretboard?
Click Here |
The Hankey! If one were needing such an aid, the 'vertical fretboard' is the solution, and can be removed. A crutch for a broken leg is useful for when you no longer need it.
If you keep using one, it will become a handicap.
I think genius is frequently over estimated. Paul might accede (sorry, reading Bill H. makes me write like this) that Mr. Emmons pursuit of the instrument
came from study and practice (his 'special gift' aside). Learning to play in the dark was not for the purpose of looking at the audience.
Bill Hankey was a dedicated learner, at the other end of the spectrum from, say, Mssrs. Emmons and Franklin (whose advice is well taken--moving the bar laterally,
across the fretboard, is one of those things that, to me, is a mystery how a player can add another physical dimension in moving the bar forward and back
while playing with pedals and chewing gum--requiring mastery.)
So if you want to mark the 19th fret, why not? Just throw away the crutch when you learn to walk. Besides, crutches aren't a thing of beauty, like a steel guitar.
A friend has a Yamaha keyboard that someone surreptitiously applied note letters to all the keys, including the black ones. I couldn't play it.
To paraphrase Lao Tzu, 'More markers count less.' Additional visual noise will not help the situation. |
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Jim Palenscar
From:
Oceanside, Calif, USA
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Posted 20 Nov 2018 8:18 am
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| As Reece said- "I let my eyes start the move and my ears finish it." |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 20 Nov 2018 8:37 am
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As Jim mentioned, when you get up in "Hughey land" you have to go with your ears, not your eyes. 
Erv |
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Franklin
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Posted 20 Nov 2018 4:31 pm
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John,
If you want to play up high you should remember John played all of his famous solos with Twitty and Vince using a 12string 7/8 bar....The 15/16th is something he used live where tuning was not nearly as critical...When the frets narrow that 15/16th could be the problem...Also the last time I saw John and his guitar recording was about a year before he passed at Oceanways studio complex..I was working in the other studio...There was only a 7/8th bar on his guitar, no 15/16th / Just sayin' If your ears are saying its out maybe use the 7/8th.
I have eyesight all the way up the fretboard because my thumb does not cover the front of the bar.... Sitting to the right allows me to also tilt my head a little when needed. I never advocate losing eyesight of the frets under the bar...The ears are always the determining factor but eyesight sure helps..
Have a Great Thanksgiving!
Paul
Last edited by Franklin on 21 Nov 2018 10:54 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Justin Schack
From:
New Jersey, USA
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Posted 21 Nov 2018 5:16 am
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Thank you everyone for the replies and advice. I hear the “crutch†argument, but respectfully ask in response, why are there fret markers on the fretboard itself? Are those also crutches?
I think of my experience as a longtime 6-string guitarist. Today I mostly don’t need to mind fretboard dots. Decades of repetition get my fingers to the right places. But once in a while I look down and they’re useful.
My original question came specifically in response to watching instructional videos in which the teacher is mentioning fret numbers. I don’t have a ready command of where, say, the 19th fret is. That makes it harder to follow along. I like the “training wheels†metaphor some injected into this conversation, as I think the numbers might help while I’m learning, and could be removed later. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 21 Nov 2018 7:17 am
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| Justin Schack wrote: |
...I don’t have a ready command of where, say, the 19th fret is. |
Maybe this'll help: Notice that the 7th fret is at the third marker above the nut. Since the nut and 12th fret are the same, notewise, the third marker above the 12th fret would be the 19th fret (12+7=19).
Luckily, the 12th fret on both regular steel guitars and pedal steel guitars is normally noted with the most distinctive marker, and it's the same way with straight guitars.
| Justin Schack wrote: |
| Thank you everyone for the replies and advice. I hear the “crutch†argument, but respectfully ask in response, why are there fret markers on the fretboard itself? Are those also crutches? |
In a manner of speaking, I guess you could call them that (if you wanted to use that as a way to win the argument).  But on most all guitar necks (like the one pictured above, mine, and probably on the ones you learned on and still have) they're already there.
Look Justin, we're just trying to help you, but you're in no way obligated to take our advice. It's your guitar and your journey. But whatever you do, just have fun and enjoy it!  |
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