Bar science? Why do they differ?

Al Evans · From: Austin, Texas, USA

Has any scientific investigation been done on why bars sound so different from one another? Given two bars of similar size and mass, both highly polished, one of stainless steel and one of chroms-plated steel, why would they differ in tone and sustain?

I have no problem understanding how a softer material uses up more vibrational energy due to friction, or how a less massive one would be more inclined to use up energy by picking up the vibrations itself.

But given substantially similar mass and hardness, why would there be a difference?

As a dyed-in-the-wool skeptic, I wouldn't have believed it until I experienced it.

--Al Evans
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Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

I don't know about "science", which to me implies developing theories and then testing those theories with rigorous experiments, adjusting theories, re-testing, and so on, until some type of convergence takes place. That's the kind of "science" I know about, and I don't see a lot of it in the "outer" non-science world. Nor is true science always necessary - art is art, science is science, and they are not necessarily always dependent on each other.

On the other hand, many steel players have a lot of very useful anecdotal experience with bars, strings, and playing parameters and many have formed some well-developed conclusions. And thus, in the days when people on this forum were not afraid of open, frank, and sometimes even heated exchange of ideas about steel guitar, many discussions ensued. A properly crafted search on a decent search engine (e.g., google) will point out many of these, such as

https://steelguitarforum.com/Forum5/HTML/004346.html

https://steelguitarforum.com/Forum15/HTML/013650.html (this is a long and somewhat contentious thread, but there's lots of useful information exchanged if you're willing to read through it)

https://steelguitarforum.com/Forum5/HTML/005275.html

https://steelguitarforum.com/Forum5/HTML/006980.html

https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=27899

https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=27899

And there are many more, I'm not going to try to make this exhaustive.

To my mind, there are many issues, which include

1. Bar size (length and effective diameter/width);

2. Bar materials - there are a LOT of possible materials including stainless steel, other steeel, brass, aluminum (or other metals), various types of polymers/plastics, glass, zirconium, and no doubt others I've never heard of;

3. Bar construction - bullet, dobro-style, solid vs. hollowed-out, laminated and/or coated, and so on;

4. Mass;

5. Density;

6. String material and construction;

7. Steel guitar design and construction;

8. Playing style and technique;

and no doubt plenty of others. As long as we're talking bullet-style pedal steel bars, the big issues for me are: 1) Size - I have large hands, and need a bigger bar); and 2) Material - I like fairly dense/high-mass bars for sustain, and prefer BJS chromed or zirc bars because for me they slide better over stainless strings, which is what I tend to use. The latter comes (to me, at least) from Bobbe Seymour, who always argued that same-metal to same-metal contact produces more friction, which I found to be true when I tried it myself. You'll see a lot of this kind of stuff in the threads I linked.

I think one needs to scope any study of this kind of thing quite narrowly to make useful observations and conclusions. That is certainly what useful "scientific" investigation does.

Ian Rae · From: Redditch, England

One parameter Dave doesn't list is coefficient of friction, which I suspect is different between chrome and stainless. There is also the difference between dynamic and static coefficients to consider. How these affect the harmonic content of a vibrating string I have no idea - just an engineer's hunch! Smile

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Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

One factor that hasn't been mentioned is surface finish - there's smooth, and then there's s m o o t h ! That also affects the sound and sustain. But when we say that one bar sounds better, what do we really mean? of course, the acid test for this is to record your playing with several different bars, and then try to tell by just listening as to which sounds best. Differences which then can't be heard on a playback should be considered apocryphal, I believe. And it's also true that stainless steel bars don't feel as good (the same?) when you use stainless steel-wound strings.

In addition, like most things, I personally feel that bar qualities are somewhat simple and basic when you're a beginner, but that needs can increase as the ability of the player increases. The standard argument that "starting out, I want the best there is" is rather unreasonable for a beginner, IMHO.

You don't need a Stradivarius to learn to learn to play violin. Winking

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

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