| Author |
Topic: Figuring out C6 songs on E9 neck |
Andy Henriksen
From:
Michigan, USA
|
Posted 30 Oct 2018 5:38 am |
|
I only have a single E9 neck, and it seems half the songs I want to learn are played on the C6 neck. Yes, I realize what the obvious answer to this problem is...
But, given that there's no way I'm upgrading anytime soon to a D10, I'm hoping you folks with lots of experience can give me some pointers. And maybe we can do it with a case study of sorts.
Here's a song I am trying to learn to play with my band - Webb Pierce's version of In the Jailhouse Now. We've all seen this video. It's great! Sonny Burnette, right? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiVDtll8th0
Anyway, I'm guessing it's all on the C6 neck by the look of things (unless it's some oddball tuning).
The solo starts at about 1:30.
How would you go about finding the right grips and intervals, and pedal combos on the E9 neck to approximate the sound of the solo and the tasty fills throughout the rest of the song?
I'm not asking for TAB (although, tbh, I'd take it if someone wants to go to the trouble), but rather I thought it would be good to use this song as an exercise in this neck-swapping task, so that I can figure it out on my own, without wasting too many hours and brain cells heading down the wrong path entirely. |
|
|
 |
Jeff Mead
From:
London, England
|
Posted 30 Oct 2018 6:57 am
|
|
Do you have a lever to lower your low D to C#?
Of so engage that plus A&B pedals and you have a 6 string A6 on strings 4-9.
Alternatively lower your Es a semitone and you have a B6 on quite a few strings (C6 a semitone lower).
Last edited by Jeff Mead on 6 Nov 2018 4:42 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
|
|
Dean Owen
From:
Alberta, Canada
|
|
|
|
ajm
From:
Los Angeles
|
Posted 30 Oct 2018 7:51 am
|
|
Jeff Mead: "Alternatively lower your Es a senior...."
In more common terms, what is a senior?
I have been playing for 45 years and never heard that term. |
|
|
|
Andy Henriksen
From:
Michigan, USA
|
Posted 30 Oct 2018 8:17 am
|
|
| Jeff Mead wrote: |
Do you have a lever to lower your low D to C#?
Of so engage that plus A&B pedals and you have a 6 string A6 on strings 4-9.
Alternatively lower your Es a senior and you have a B6 on quite a few strings (C6 a senior lower). |
I do not have a low D lower (I have a stage one with 3p and 4knees).
I also don't know what a 'senior' is, but I can lower my Es to Eb (which would seem to be more of a junior...or even maybe freshman....). |
|
|
|
Andy Henriksen
From:
Michigan, USA
|
Posted 30 Oct 2018 8:27 am
|
|
Thank you Dean! I had seen that page before and spent some time with it, but it didn't come to mind with this most recent attempt at figuring this out.
that will help for sure. I'm not opposed to just keeping A+B down (or one of the other pocket/pedal combos)and playing mostly like a lap steel, provided the right notes can be found without "running out of neck." |
|
|
|
Dustin Kleingartner
From:
Saint Paul MN, USA
|
Posted 30 Oct 2018 12:43 pm
|
|
I'm not sure what "senior" refers to, but...
Lower your E's and you have B6 (just skip the 9th string):
So with your bar at the first fret, you have C6th:
4 E
5 C
6 A
7 G
8 E
9 x
10 C
So with your E's lowered it is the same as C6, you just have to compensate for that one fret difference.
That's the way I think of it anyways...
_________________
Proud parent of a good dog. |
|
|
|
ajm
From:
Los Angeles
|
Posted 31 Oct 2018 6:40 am
|
|
I bought a PSG lesson book many years ago by John Badasio (Bidasio?, spelling?).
It had four major "lessons" in it.
One of them was using the E to Eb knee lever to get you in a "6th" tuning neighborhood. |
|
|
|
Pete Bailey
From:
Seattle, WA
|
Posted 31 Oct 2018 6:43 am
|
|
| ajm wrote: |
Jeff Mead: "Alternatively lower your Es a senior...."
In more common terms, what is a senior?
I have been playing for 45 years and never heard that term. |
My guess is that's a really terrible autocorrection of "semitone'  |
|
|
|
Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
|
Posted 31 Oct 2018 8:34 am
|
|
Herb Remington’s “E9 Pedals Downâ€:
http://www.remingtonsteelguitars.com/A6.html
A6 tunes arranged so you can pretend you don’t have pedals. Paul Franklin advises to pick 12 frets above the bar to give your pedal steel a more authentic swingy lap steel or console type tone. |
|
|
|
David Ellison
From:
California, USA
|
Posted 31 Oct 2018 10:14 am
|
|
The steel in that Webb Pierce video is not C6 at all... it's early E9. So you can definitely approximate all of that on the modern E9, maybe even play it exactly. He's definitely using what are now the A & B pedals.
Check out Bud Isaacs original E9 pedal steel tuning, and you'll see how it differs from what we have now: no high G# or chromatics, and the pedals work a little differently, but in essence it's the same. |
|
|
|
David Ellison
From:
California, USA
|
Posted 31 Oct 2018 10:19 am
|
|
| I also want to say that if you're looking to play vintage country non-pedal sounds, you can get all of that on the E9 neck. If you want to get heavily into western swing, and especially if you want the jazz sounds that Buddy Emmons and Curly Chalker made in the 60s, you'll want a C6 neck. |
|
|
|
Allan Haley
From:
British Columbia, Canada
|
Posted 31 Oct 2018 10:39 am
|
|
| I can't wait until I'm a retired semitone and can get more time to play PSG! |
|
|
|
Andy Henriksen
From:
Michigan, USA
|
Posted 31 Oct 2018 10:52 am
|
|
You guys are great! I am sure this question has been asked a bunch before, and I appreciate your willingness to have the conversation with a newbie again.
Thank You David for pointing out that my assumption about the tuning was wrong. I was just going by front neck vs back neck from the video, and hadn't really gotten around to trying to figure it out on my own.
Cheers,
Andy |
|
|
|
Pete Burak
From:
Portland, OR USA
|
Posted 2 Nov 2018 8:02 am Figuring out C6 songs on E9 neck
|
|
You know, on E9th, if they put the D# on string 1, and the D on string 10, besides still having all the standard E9th stuff, you could also have an 8-string B6th with E's lowered (C6th at fret-1, great for C6th playing) and an 8-string A6th with A+B down (another standard Swing tuning), on the middle 8 strings.
Re-order E9th strings 1-F#, 3-G#, 4-E, to be the same order as they have always been on strings 6-G#, 7-F#, 8-E, and you have a new more versitle E9th S10 that swings like crazy, without removing any open-notes or pedal/lever changes from Standard E9th
1-D#
2-G#
3-F#
4-E
5-B
6-G#
7-F#
8-E
9-B
10-D
What do you think of this E9th Copedant? |
|
|
|
Dick Sexton
From:
Greenville, Ohio
|
|
|
|
Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
|
Posted 6 Nov 2018 8:12 am Re: When I think of C6 sound on E9th...
|
|
One of the rules seems to be to lay off of strings 1, 2, and 3. |
|
|
|
Pete Burak
From:
Portland, OR USA
|
Posted 6 Nov 2018 8:33 am
|
|
My take on strings 1,2, and 3 when playing C6th on E9th:
On E9th, with E's lowered, Fret-1 open is C6th.
Now that you are playing a C6th at Fret-1 with E's lowered...
String 1 is now the same a C6th with G-on-top.
Tune string-2 to the same note as string-5 with the A-pedal depressed, and now string-2 is the same as C6th with D on top(Tune it to string-4 with E's lowered to get it back to D#).
(on C6th you have to choose one or the other, but you get both on E9th).
String 3 is a high-A, an octave above string-6 (anything that sounds good on string-6 will also sound good on String 3.
The B-pedal changes the C6th to a C7th, and the 3rd string sounds nice up there!
But yeah, in the OP's video, that is all E9th to my ear.
Last edited by Pete Burak on 6 Nov 2018 10:40 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
|
|
gary pierce
From:
Rossville TN
|
Posted 6 Nov 2018 9:51 am
|
|
| Looks like he's playing on E9 or at least the end of his break. |
|
|
|
Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
|
Posted 6 Nov 2018 10:43 am
|
|
| Pete Burak wrote: |
My take on strings 1,2, and 3 when playing C6th on E9th:
On E9th, with E's lowered, Fret-1 open is C6th.
Now that you are playing a C6th at Fret-1 with E's lowered...
String 1 is now the same a C6th with G-on-top.
Tune string-2 to the same note as string-5 with the A-pedal depressed, and now string-2 is the same as C6th with D on top.
(on C6th you have to choose one or the other, but you get both on E9th).
String 3 is a high-A, and octave above string-6 (anything that sounds good on string-6 will also sound good on String 3.
The B-pedal changes the C6th to a C7th, and the 3rd string sounds nice up there! |
Yes, Pete, thanks. I think laying off those higher strings gives the illusion of the timbre of a C6 neck. The top 3 of E9 get into the twang zone we all know and love, but for a jazzy tune like There Will Never Be Another You, maybe not the sound we are looking for. |
|
|
|
Pete Burak
From:
Portland, OR USA
|
Posted 6 Nov 2018 11:27 am
|
|
Fred, fwiw, I have found the "G on top" and "D on Top" work great when playing 6th on 9th.
The thing about the high G# 3rd string is, on C6th, you get that note when you use the Standard C6th pedals in the "Up 3 frets from Open" position.
On E9th there is not an easy Standard E9th pedal/lever position for that, but, it is a freebee at the Open position.
Herb Steiner has an excellent 6th on 9th Course, too!
As I recall he uses the AB down A6th position for the basis of the 6th on 9th Course. |
|
|
|
Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
|
Posted 6 Nov 2018 2:35 pm
|
|
Right on again, Pete. I just listened to Herb’s version of Don’t Get Around Much Anymore. I can tell he is all over string 3 on it, including the very first note of the melody.
I really do need to get better at taking advice from people who know more about this stuff than I do. My dad used to tell me that it’s usually better to just sit there and look dumb than to speak up and remove all doubt...  |
|
|
|
Jeff Mead
From:
London, England
|
Posted 6 Nov 2018 4:41 pm
|
|
| ajm wrote: |
Jeff Mead: "Alternatively lower your Es a senior...."
In more common terms, what is a senior?
I have been playing for 45 years and never heard that term. |
That's probably because you don't have that stupid predictive text thing on your phone.
I'm pretty sure I typed "semitone" |
|
|
|
