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Topic: PA systems, Amplifiers and Steel Guitars |
Bob Taschetta
From:
Arizona, Wickenburg
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Posted 27 Sep 2018 7:00 am |
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Hello y'all, I have a question regarding using
a PA system with or without an amplifier. I recently connected up with a couple of good ole boys here town and they own a Yamaha 6000I PA system.
They would prefer I go directly into it with my Steel however, it seems to degrade the sweetness of the guitar. I'm currently using my amp inline with the PA. system and think it sounds better. In the spirit of teamwork I'd like to oblige. BUT if the general consensus out there in the Steel Guitar world is use an Amp with the PA then I'll have the ammo to politely stand my ground. 
Can anyone tell me what the norm is or is there any such thing as a norm?
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Bob Taschetta |
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Larry Dering
From:
Missouri, USA
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Posted 27 Sep 2018 8:15 am
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| Bob, you will get all sorts of answers to this. My personal method is using an amp that has a line out too. I have used a line 6 rack pod pro with good results but it was my equipment and I had time at home to tweak it. I was never fully satisfied with the sound. I went back to the amp and line out. |
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Paul Sutherland
From:
Placerville, California
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Posted 27 Sep 2018 7:39 pm
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Some people have good success with playing direct and even prefer it. I like having my own amp on stage and putting a mic on it, and then setting the amp volume fairly low and letting the PA do the heavy lifting to the front of house. It depends a great deal on the quality of the PA and sound-engineer. Having a good preamp makes playing direct a much better option.
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It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing. |
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Bob Taschetta
From:
Arizona, Wickenburg
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Posted 27 Sep 2018 7:44 pm
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Thank you, that's makes a lot of sense to me. Hoping to get a few more responses like this so I can share them with my fellow musicians so they see the general consensus is Amp to PA
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Bob Taschetta |
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Bill Myers
From:
Camp Hill, Pennsylvania, USA
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Posted 28 Sep 2018 3:29 am
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Having the steel go directly in makes it easier for the PA guy to control the mix as well as the bleed through from stage volume. The problem is that alot of the tone from my sound comes from the speaker. This is generally lost with a direct line in. I generally use a shure 57 to mic the amp.
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Carter D10 9 x 5, Nashville 112, Goodrich L10K |
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Bob Taschetta
From:
Arizona, Wickenburg
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Posted 28 Sep 2018 6:48 am
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Thank you Bill, that's what I started doing, putting a mic in front of the amp speaker. Someone also mentioned a direct box, they look inexpensive enough to try it. I so dislike the sound of directly going into a PA.
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Bob Taschetta |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 28 Sep 2018 7:29 am
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Peavey has a box that you can install whereby you get the sound you want from your amp plus, that same sound goes to the PA.
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Bob Taschetta
From:
Arizona, Wickenburg
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Posted 28 Sep 2018 7:37 am
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Hi Erv, thank you for sharing that's the answer. Gonna stop at Guitar Center and pick one up.
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Bob Taschetta |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 28 Sep 2018 7:50 am
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Bob,
That particular model might be discontinued but they do have a later model.
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Bill Myers
From:
Camp Hill, Pennsylvania, USA
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Posted 28 Sep 2018 10:18 am
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I've used quite a few DI boxes over the years. My favorites are Countryman and Radial. Definitely not the place you want to go cheap.
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Carter D10 9 x 5, Nashville 112, Goodrich L10K |
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Brett Lanier
From:
Madison, TN
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Posted 28 Sep 2018 10:36 am
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Just about any d.i. you'll see will have a through option. Hopefully the band will let you do what's most comforfortable and familiar to you, that way you'll play your best and will be much easier to mix, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
The sound engineer for my group has said before,, "If what's coming out of your amp sounds good to you it's much easier for me to make it sound good out front". Makes sense to me. |
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Godfrey Arthur
From:
3rd Rock
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Posted 28 Sep 2018 10:49 am
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A good direct box will help get your signal to the PA.
The other side of this is the PA system and the sound person running it.
If it is a small venue, you'll have an easier time balancing the sound of your amp on stage with the PA.
But if this is the system your band is using:
The above system will need stage volume to help it along with mostly mid range and vocals being the most it will produce.
The larger PA system you use, it will also depend on how large a venue you play.
If it is an arena or outdoor gig, the PA will be your main connection with the audience and what you think they will hear won't necessarily be the case.
With your present PA, I would opt for having as good an amp as you can get for your steel and let this rather small PA system augment what your amp puts out.
Don't expect this system to faithfully produce anything more than a vocal with an acoustic guitar.
Your sound person is going to have to know how to make best use out this type of PA together with your stage amps and not as the only amp for your steel.
Unless you're playing a very small place will this system have enough power to present a full band.
That said, how will you monitor yourself if they want you to only go direct? The PA will be out in front of you and the band.
IEM's? Floor wedges?
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ShoBud The Pro 1
YES it's my REAL NAME!
Ezekiel 33:7 |
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Norm Fletcher
From:
Ashland, OR
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Posted 29 Sep 2018 12:36 am
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I have done sound design and understand why sound people want a direct out. Two reasons: 1. It’s easier.... there is no setup with a microphone in front of the amp. 2. It’s easier......
That said, I have to ask WHY would one spend extra money for an Eminence special steel speaker, or a custom made Weber speaker or that JBL 130 series that you found online only bypass your speaker with a line out? That is an almost certain guarantee that the audience will not hear the tone you spent time creating.
If you want the audience to hear YOUR TONE, use a microphone, and insist on minimal tonal tweaking by the sound man.
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Williams 700 E9th/B6. 1978 Webb 6-14. Taylor Acoustic, 1973 Ramirez Segovia 1a, Brian Moore iGuitar with synth driver and, my standby for acoustic gigs, a little Roland Acoustic amp. |
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ajm
From:
Los Angeles
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Posted 29 Sep 2018 6:43 am
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From the original post:
"They would prefer I go directly into it with my Steel however, ......."
Question #1: Why?
Question #2: Are these guys musicians themselves, or are they just a coupla guys that happen to own a PA system and therefore fancy themselves as "sound engineers"? |
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Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
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Posted 29 Sep 2018 9:52 am
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I would have to give my sound guy a 10-page booklet on my tone/volume/effects settings if I went direct out of the instrument. It would definitely not make his job easier, unless he didn’t care how I wanted to sound, in which case one of us would have to leave the gig.
I’m in the mic’d amp camp. Last resort for me would be to go direct out of my amp-modeling FX unit and have my own monitor mix. Me Me Me  |
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Glenn Demichele
From:
(20mi N of) Chicago Illinois, USA
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Posted 29 Sep 2018 10:01 am
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Interesting thread. I need to blow my own head off with my own amp to hear myself anyway. Me through monitors would be annoying to everyone else on stage, and if I had my own, I'd be bugging the sound guy for more of me all night.
That peavey box is interesting. Has anybody permanently installed an SM57 (or just the capsule) into their speaker grill, and routed it to a line out jack. That way you could point the sound guy at the jack, and say "there's my line out".
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Franklin D10 8&5, Excel D10 8&5. Both amazing guitars! Homemade buffer/overdrive with adjustable 700Hz "Fender" scoop., Moyo pedal, GT-001 effects, 2x TDA7294 80W class AB amps, or 2x BAM200 for stereo. TT12 and BW1501 each in its own closed back wedge. Also NV400 etc. etc... |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 1 Oct 2018 4:42 pm
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If I had to play just through the PA (with no amp), I'd probably turn down the gig. 
"Uhh...Mr. Atkins, you can leave your Gretsch at home. We have a nice little Danelectro solid-body here that you can play."
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Dave Grafe
From:
Hudson River Valley NY
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Posted 2 Oct 2018 12:05 am
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| What Norm said. |
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Glenn Demichele
From:
(20mi N of) Chicago Illinois, USA
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Posted 2 Oct 2018 4:29 am
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No, really, has anybody seen a microphone-based DI on a speaker cab?
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Franklin D10 8&5, Excel D10 8&5. Both amazing guitars! Homemade buffer/overdrive with adjustable 700Hz "Fender" scoop., Moyo pedal, GT-001 effects, 2x TDA7294 80W class AB amps, or 2x BAM200 for stereo. TT12 and BW1501 each in its own closed back wedge. Also NV400 etc. etc... |
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Norm Fletcher
From:
Ashland, OR
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Posted 4 Oct 2018 9:21 am
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OK Glenn, the answer is yes. I will be releasing the “On Board Ultimate Mic†early next year. It is permanently mounted without having to modify your cabinet much. In our trials, the guys running sound love it. Sorry, no more details... awaiting patent pending status.
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Williams 700 E9th/B6. 1978 Webb 6-14. Taylor Acoustic, 1973 Ramirez Segovia 1a, Brian Moore iGuitar with synth driver and, my standby for acoustic gigs, a little Roland Acoustic amp. |
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Glenn Demichele
From:
(20mi N of) Chicago Illinois, USA
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Posted 4 Oct 2018 10:14 am
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Awesome. Thanks for giving us steel players the exclusive scoop!
_________________
Franklin D10 8&5, Excel D10 8&5. Both amazing guitars! Homemade buffer/overdrive with adjustable 700Hz "Fender" scoop., Moyo pedal, GT-001 effects, 2x TDA7294 80W class AB amps, or 2x BAM200 for stereo. TT12 and BW1501 each in its own closed back wedge. Also NV400 etc. etc... |
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Godfrey Arthur
From:
3rd Rock
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Posted 12 Oct 2018 5:28 am
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| Glenn Demichele wrote: |
Me through monitors would be annoying to everyone else on stage, and if I had my own, I'd be bugging the sound guy for more of me all night.
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The more pro your sound system is, you would have a dedicated monitor mixer/sound person who can custom mix everyone's monitors so that you would not be bothering the others on stage with your instrument. They would be able to choose who they get to hear in their monitors (or not) be it wedges or IEM's and you would be able to have all you like of yourself in yours.
A monitor mixer is different from that of the FOH sound mixer out front. All those knobs are the mix choices each musician gets in his/her monitors, to customize what they hear and how much or little of each.
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ShoBud The Pro 1
YES it's my REAL NAME!
Ezekiel 33:7 |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 12 Oct 2018 6:46 am
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Just looking at that board gives me a headache! 
Erv |
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Glenn Demichele
From:
(20mi N of) Chicago Illinois, USA
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Posted 12 Oct 2018 7:27 am
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Ha: The gigs I play are not that fancy. Usually there are only two monitors up front: I never get my own. I've played with as many as maybe six, but even then my amp still ends up being my monitor. I've never used in-ear monitors.
With a minimal sound system, our band can settle into a sound in about three tunes. We usually don't get an opportunity (or bother) to sound check. At the bigger places with more complicated systems, it takes a set and a half to get the sound right, but we're usually sharing the bill and only get to play one set. This is why I'm not famous.
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Franklin D10 8&5, Excel D10 8&5. Both amazing guitars! Homemade buffer/overdrive with adjustable 700Hz "Fender" scoop., Moyo pedal, GT-001 effects, 2x TDA7294 80W class AB amps, or 2x BAM200 for stereo. TT12 and BW1501 each in its own closed back wedge. Also NV400 etc. etc... |
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Godfrey Arthur
From:
3rd Rock
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Posted 12 Oct 2018 7:54 am
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| Erv Niehaus wrote: |
Just looking at that board gives me a headache!
Erv |
And to think all that goes through a coax cable, (the latest versions) maybe two, one for redundancy.
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ShoBud The Pro 1
YES it's my REAL NAME!
Ezekiel 33:7 |
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