Reaching A pedal with LKR engaged

Justin Schack · From: New Jersey, USA

Does anyone else have trouble with this? Maybe my seat is too high or my body is not positioned correctly? When I push the left knee lever to the right, the A pedal feels way too far away. I have a lot of trouble isolating it without also partially depressing the B pedal.

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

That is an unnatural reach, and most of us deal with it by arranging the copedent so that the A/LKR combo is hardly ever used.
If you MUST hit that combo, roll your ankle as far outside as possible, and then lift the ankle.
If the B pedal still interferes, either raise the A pedal or lower the B.

If the lever is to get hit while the notes are ringing, you could engage the LKR with the right hand.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Double-neck guitars, where the set up uses the same levers for both necks, make this move difficult for a lot of players. (My "regular player" guitars have discrete LK levers for each neck.)

But if you have a single neck, the guitar should have been built to make this an easy move.

A good tech can move levers or pedals to make this easier for you. Or, you could switch to a "Day" setup.

Dave Hepworth · From: West Yorkshire, UK

Hi,
My E to F is LKR on an Emmons pedal copedant ! Always has been.I have no trouble deploying A pedal and LKR .I do believe some well known players have this arrangement as well.By assigning E levers to different knees it allows greater freedom of using the other levers in conjunction eg 2 string lower semi tone on one lever and then a full tone on another without having to use a spring loaded half / full tone stop.This can be done using both knees ......not possible if both Es are on the same side.

Greg Lambert · From: Illinois, USA

My set up is different but when Im only using the A pedal on some songs Ill shift my left foot to only access the A pedal. Lot more comfortable and I dont worry about accidentally depressing the B pedal.

Brint Hannay · From: Maryland, USA

Ron Funk · From: Ballwin, Missouri

For that particular move (1st Pedal and LKR) you might have to be part gymnast.

Or Try this: Without moving or lifting the heel of your left foot, try moving the front portion of your left foot slightly further to the left of the 'standard position' of over the 1st and 2nd pedals.

Then (hopefully) you'll be able to depress 1st pedal and engage Left Knee Moving Right Lever without touching the 2nd pedal.

Neat sound when you need it.

Bengt Erlandsen · From: Brekstad, NORWAY

Are you maybe sitting too much to the left or towards center of the guitar ?
Many guitars are setup so your legs should be in this position seen from above.

Bill Moran · From: Virginia, USA

"Pass Me By" using the BC pedals and lowering the E is the only time I ever had that problem. Maybe a lot of other reasons to do that. I just never run into it.
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Bill

Nikolai Shveitser · From: Louisiana, USA

Practicing some of these awkward moves (A+B with LKR or B+C with LKR) caused an MCL sprain in my left knee. I haven't been able to play with pedals for at least a month. Of course,there's warning signs that people in their right mind generally pay attention to (before their knee swells up to twice it's normal size.) ergonomics in the case of pedal steel is a real concern! Don't mean to be a bearer of bad news Shocked

Georg Sørtun · From: Mandal, Agder, Norway

Although I lost some movement and sensation in my left foot/leg after surgery a few years back, I do not find controlling pedals A, A+B, B+C along with LKR (E to Eb), and sometimes mixing in LKV for lowering E to D on LKR on my particular tuning, especially awkward. I have five pedals arranged left to right: p0 (B to A), pA, pB, pC, and an extra lower E to B, and they all kind of work with LKR (and LKL).
Sometimes the lack of sensation makes me slip on the pedals, but less often as time goes by.

Main reason these pedal/lever combinations work for me, is that 30 years ago I repositioned all knee levers to fit me as well as they possibly can when I sit in a centered position and leg balanced over the pedals – more towards the keyhead than most players seem to. The other reason is all those years of practicing.

Fred Treece · From: California, USA

I raise my heel too, like Lane was saying. I have heard it said that the heel should never leave the floor. Bunk. Whatever gets it done. Iâ€™ll do a headstand if it helps get the sound I want. If I want to follow A+LKR with A+B, which is a very practical chord change and a difficult move, there is no way to hover over B without going up on tip toes on A. At least not on my guitar, and with my leg.

Peter Freiberger · From: California, USA

Lloyd Green and Jay Dee both play Emmons pedals and raise E's to F on LKR. Jay Dee also lowers E's on LKL, another seemingly awkward move with the B pedal. I think whatever changes you have on your left side levers you'll have to make these moves occasionally. It's really not so difficult on a well set up instrument.

Jim Sliff · From: Lawndale California, USA

It would help to post a picture showing the relative positions.

As someone previously mentioned the LKR may need to be repositioned. There are no "standard" positions, and I've found very little consistency in the physical distance between pedals and knee levers - some seem to be so oddly placed as to require the player to be double-jointed.

There have been some good suggestions but without knowing the specifics of your current setup there's no way to know what might work.
_________________
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional

Justin Schack · From: New Jersey, USA

Thanks for all the responses, folks. I am playing a StageOne with a standard Emmons 3/4 setup. I'm just learning and relying primarily on internet videos (Rady Guide right now). One of the lessons I was watching called for engaging both LKR and A pedal simultaneously (I think it was for a pentatonic scale) and I found it to be impossible. I tried lifting the heel and other recommendations here but still can't quite do it. Maybe my legs are too short or I'm sitting too high (I'm about 5'8"). If I depart from the approach of using the left side of the left foot to engage the A pedal (while still keeping the right portion of the foot available to hit the B pedal), I can do it. I wonder if it's just that simple, or whether there are instances in which using the left part/side of the left foot to press A while also keeping LKR engaged is useful (like if you need to roll onto B quickly for some reason)...

Fred Treece · From: California, USA

Michael Johnstone · From: Sylmar,Ca. USA

I use that combination once in a blue moon like on the ending double-stop run on Song for Sara by Paul Franklin. It takes a limber ankle and a careful setup of the angle across the A & B pedals when at rest. And practice.

Bobby Nelson · From: North Carolina, USA

That is very easy for me with the Day set up. But A&B & LKL, which lowers Es for me, can be very difficult.

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Fred Treece · From: California, USA

If anything I said about my Stage One sounded like a complaint about how it was made, I take it back. Cool

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

My big complaint wasn't against any particular pedal steel brand...it was against all of them. You'd think, that with this contraption being around over half a century now, that someone would have certainly figured out how to give us some height adjustability on the instrument. That is, without buying new legs and rods, or Rube-Goldberging something with spacers and whatnot that looks like a teenager made it in a shop class. That stuff may have been okay when pedal steels were $1200-$2400. But with instruments now regularly moving up into the $4000-$7000 bracket, I expect more.

Maybe I'm weird?

(BTW, I have a similar complaint with pedal steel pack-seats that are not height-adjustable.) Mr. Green

Bob Cox · From: Buckeye State

Use 2 string open instead. That works good with songs like applejack that resolve in a lkr

Bobby D. Jones · From: West Virginia, USA

Where is your lever that lowers 4-8 to D# ?
The first steel I bought was set up "Day System" with (D) knee lever LKL lower to D# and Raise 4-8 to F (F) Knee lever LKR It was very comfortable, I set up a following guitar the same, Till I went to a 12U Now D and F knee levers are RK.
Could be somewhere in your guitars past it was set up DAY setup and someone changed the pedals to EMMONS and did not change the knee levers to match.
Mr. Emmons copendent show his F knee lever (Raise 4-8 to F) on his LKL. That way roll knee left, Roll Foot left on A pedal and up 3 frets is a very common move. Just a thought on how this came to be. Bring up Mr. Emmons copendent on the internet, And check against his copendent may help in making it easier to play. Good Luck and Happy Steelin.

Bobby Nelson · From: North Carolina, USA

Donny Hinson wrote:
These types of difficulties arise because, in most cases, the pedals aren't properly located. Moving them one space to the right makes all these problems go away. Unfortunately, the builders can currently sell any and all the guitars they can produce, so there's little reason for them to go the extra mile in design practicality. They do have the "purty wood and shiny 'lunium" part down, though, and that's all most players seem to care about. Oh Well

Mine is set up as perfect as it can be I believe. Mitchell talked to me several times while he was building and setting it up - and, being completely green to PSG, all I could tell him is that I think my ankle is going to like the Day set up better. I have a zero pedal which Kyle and Mitchel talked to me about (weather I wanted it at zero or on the right). I don't think the guys at MSA could have been more helpful or willing to tailor it to my needs.

My problem is being an older rookie problem haha! It'll come to me with practice, it just doesn't come as quick as it used to. Having been at it for a couple months now, I think I would trade that zero pedal for another knee lever (I have 5). There are a couple changes I keep looking for (I'd like my 4th string to move interdependently of the C pedal) but, I'm gonna give it a year before I mess with it, so I'm sure what I want. All in all though, it's pretty versatile.

Well, I must have did this wrong... The first paragraph is Donny's.[/quote]

Justin Schack · From: New Jersey, USA

So I took this particular lesson over again and itâ€™s now clear to me that the LKR-A pedal combination is executed by isolating the left foot on A rather than just using the outside of the foot. For that particular pentatonic scale thereâ€™s no B pedal required and I can now play it fine. Not sure if eventually there will be a need to use A and B together with LKR engaged but I guess Iâ€™ll cross that bridge when I come to it.

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