Seeking some Sho~Bud Crossover knowledge

Mark McCornack · From: California, USA

Greetings,
I have recently pulled out my old "Closet Queen" Show~Bud/Baldwin Crossover model and am looking for some information from other owners/aficionados of this unusual instrument. Primarily on "stock" setup, if there is such a thing.

First of all, I'm curious as to the pedal and knee lever arrangement. Mine has 6 pedals (effectively 12 since the crossover mechanism dedicates all 6 pedals to either E9 or C6 neck depending on crossover lever position), but there appears to have been no stock knee levers. Is this typical? There are 7 cross shafts with racks (see undercarriage shot) and only 6 pedals, so I'm thinking there must have been some intent to use the 7th somehow.
There were a couple of knees added on this guitar (not attached in following pics), but clearly they're not original and I'd love to see a picture of a "stock" knee lever arrangement (if there is such a thing).

Second, given the lack of knee levers and the abundance of pedals, if you play one of these, what are You using as a copedent for each neck?

I realize the mere mention of "Sho~Bud Crossover" is an emotionally charged topic here, and there are those that hate them, and those that love them. Personally, love the sound, hate the weight! No intent here to foment a frenzy on the forum, I'd just like to get a better historical understanding of the thing and see that I get it set up right. Actually, any useful input is quite welcome Smile

. Here are a couple pics for reference.
Cheers,
Mark

Rick Abbott · From: Indiana, USA

I have one that I play sometimes. Yours would be a lot more playable than mine, I'd guess. I use mine as a D10 non-pedal with E13 and C6 now, instead of using the pedals.

You are missing a knee lever. They came standard with one RKL. There were some custom ones with more levers. You can set it to do anything you wish. Many folks would make it drop the E's on E9. I raise them to F because I use that change way more than the lower.

There is no real standard. Who knows what came from the factory? But the point of the mechanics is that you can quickly change the copedant to anything (as long as it only has 1 knee lever). The crossover lever is a trap...it will work, sort of, but leave a lot of slop in both setups, you know, for each neck. And when it fails the whole system is out of whack and takes some work to reset everything. The problem would occur when you are stepping on a pedal and throw the lever...boom, stuff comes unhooked from both sets of tabs underneath.

I avoid the crossover entirely. I sacrificed the first pedal and added a second KL. So mine has: E-raise, E-lower, A-B-C pedals on the E9 neck. I have the KL also attached to Lower the C's to Bb and two pedals, the 5 and 6 pedals from C6 standard setup. So, 5 pedals and 2 knee levers permanent, no crossover. It's just a matter of adjusting the underside to work that way...I took the actual lever off entirely.
_________________
RICK ABBOTT
Sho~Bud D-10 Professional #7962
Remington T-8, Sehy #112
1975 Peavey Pacer

Jack Goodson · From: new brockton,alabama (deceased)

mark, if you don,t mind, what is the serial number on your guitar?....thanks jack

Mark McCornack · From: California, USA

Sure Jack. Itâ€™s 7273. If this number is meaningful to you, could you share that information with me?
Mark Smile

Andy DePaule · From: Saigon, Viet Nam & Springfield, Oregon

Hi Mark,
The missing knee lever goes on the cross shaft nearest the changer.
In the center of that cross shaft there is a metal tab with a hole in it sticking up when the guitar is upside-down. That is where the knee lever is bolted on.

Michael makes a real nice replacement for these, better than the original ones available at this link for $22.00 plus shipping;
https://www.psgparts.com/Lever-Knee-Teardrop-100-105-1.htm

Your steel already has the tuning barrels there to lower the E's to Eb. All you need is the knee lever.

You could also buy a tuning barrel from Michael with a pull rod and have that knee lever lower also the 3rd string on the C6th neck a half tone. Here is the link for that part;
https://www.psgparts.com/Barrel-Adjuster-Tuning-100-101-005.htm

And the pull rod;
https://www.psgparts.com/Pull-Rod-Set-Cut-to-Fit-Socket-Head-RODSET-C2F-SOCK.htm

I had one of these from 1978 to about 1982 with stock 7 pedals and one knee lever.
I converted it to a standard non crossover with 4 knee levers using the first two pedals on the E9th neck and the other 5 pedals on the C6th neck.
There is not a lot of really useful changes for E9th using all 6 pedals. Much better to have the knee levers. Laughing

Mine was a great sounding steel, Almost no de-tuning but heavy.
Andy

_________________
Inlaid Star Guitar 2006 by Mark Giles. SD-10 4+5 in E9th; http://luthiersupply.com/instrument-gallery.html
2017 Mullen SD-10, G2 5&5 Polished Aluminum covering. Custom Build for me. Great Steel.
Clinesmith Joaquin Murphy style Aluminum 8 String Lap Steel Short A6th.
Magnatone Jeweltone Series Lap Steel, Circa 1950? 6 String with F#minor7th Tuning.
1956 Dewey Kendrick D-8 4&3, Restoration Project.
1973 Sho~Bud Green SD-10 4&5 PSG, Restoration Project.

Jack Goodson · From: new brockton,alabama (deceased)

mark, i was just curious about how close it might be to the one i had....my serial number i believe was....7345....it was a great playing and sounding guitar....thanks jack

Mark McCornack · From: California, USA

Many thanks Andy.
After looking at this a little further, I'm sure glad it wasn't a snake! I just needed to be sure this was the original intention when the guitar was manufactured. Just one knee lever... Ho Hum.... I borrowed one of the knee levers of my Pro~I and did a little reshaping to fit, and Viola! Issue resolved.

You are right about Micheal at PGS parts. He definitely be "da man". I brought my 3x2 Pro~I up to a 3x4 with his parts and am very happy with his knowledge, support, and parts. The lever in the picture below is in fact one of his.

I think my next step will be to do an ultrasonic cleanup on the changers and other parts and dial it in to the best of my abilities. Then, I'll decide what to do next. I'm still ambivalent about whether to keep this or sell it. I loath the idea of abandoning the Crossover feature however as, at least on this guitar, it seems to function quite smoothly. I agree that 6 floor pedals on E9 is sort of a puzzlement though. Kind of an odd bird.

Thanks again for your input and help .... Mark:)

Andy DePaule · From: Saigon, Viet Nam & Springfield, Oregon

Perfect solution, but won't you now need to replace that lever on the other steel?
Yes one knee will not go very far... I'm restoring a 50's Blankenship and will need at least 2 levers. Right now it has just one that does not work well.
I'll be using Sho-Bud levers on that. May make a collector cringe, but I'm more concerned with having a useful playing steel. The sho-Bud levers are the closest match I can think of.
I will try to keep the steel as close as possible to it's original build.

At the time that the cross overs were built one knee lever was kind of standard.
When I had mine I welded the tabs onto three more of the E-9th pulling racks to give me 2 pedals and 4 levers working on that neck. That left the C6th neck with the standard 5&1. I put the E to F# on RKR where I've used it on almost every steel I've had since.
Best wishes,
Andy
_________________
Inlaid Star Guitar 2006 by Mark Giles. SD-10 4+5 in E9th; http://luthiersupply.com/instrument-gallery.html
2017 Mullen SD-10, G2 5&5 Polished Aluminum covering. Custom Build for me. Great Steel.
Clinesmith Joaquin Murphy style Aluminum 8 String Lap Steel Short A6th.
Magnatone Jeweltone Series Lap Steel, Circa 1950? 6 String with F#minor7th Tuning.
1956 Dewey Kendrick D-8 4&3, Restoration Project.
1973 Sho~Bud Green SD-10 4&5 PSG, Restoration Project.

Jack Goodson · From: new brockton,alabama (deceased)

mark, i was just curious about how close it might be to the one i had....my serial number i believe was....7345....it was a great playing and sounding guitar....thanks jack

Grant Arthur · From: Victoria, Australia

I recently bought one of these as well and I've been using it as my main steel for 6 months, love the sound and the feel of the pedals.

I've been thinking of adding a Knee Lever where there is space for the mechanism at the other end of the instrument, would the psg parts website have all the parts needed to do this?

or alternatively does anyone have the parts from an old guitar they would sell me?

Its a bit tricky having just the 1 lever, i keep having to sacrifice the volume pedal for some options.

Dave Zirbel · From: Sebastopol, CA USA

That looks like the one I saw at Amazing Grace Music in San Anselmo....... Whoa!

Very clean condition.
_________________
Dave Zirbel-
Sierra S-10 (Built by Ross Shafer),ZB, Fender 400 guitars, various tube and SS amps

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