| Author |
Topic: Pitch Return Compensators |
Jeff Rady
From:
Colorado, USA
|
Posted 5 Aug 2018 12:31 pm |
|
Does anyone have pitch return compensators on their steel guitar? I notice my strings 5 and 6 either return half a hertz sharp or flat with some of my changes, A and B come back flat, Franklin change a little sharp. Would like to know anybody's experience. Thanks!
_________________
Williams Guitar Purveyor, Owner of jeffsguitarandsteel.com |
|
|
 |
Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
|
Posted 5 Aug 2018 1:45 pm
|
|
Personally, I wouldn't worry about a half a Hz. That translates to only a few cents, which is well within reason for a lot of guitars, and I feel that a deviation that small should not generally be bothersome in actual playing. My inclination is always to leave things alone which are not problematic to me, but I realize that others may disagree.
(Note: None of my guitars have compensators.) |
|
|
|
Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
|
Posted 5 Aug 2018 6:41 pm
|
|
Are the scissors returning to the stop bar?
Does the stop bar have some crud?
The all-pull changer works fine only as long as everything rests on the stop bar when not pulled, and returns to it when released
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
|
|
|
Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
|
Posted 6 Aug 2018 1:33 am Re: Pitch Return Compensators
|
|
| Jeff Rady wrote: |
| […] A and B come back flat, Franklin change a little sharp.[…] |
Returning flat from a raise and sharp from a lower, sounds like hysteresis on the nut-rollers. That is something a cleaning and a tiny amount of oil on the roller-shaft should fix.
May also be hysteresis on the changer…
https://www.gunlaug.com/contents/music/steelguitar-peculiarities.html
… which there isn't a universal fix for since all PSG brands are built different. Just do not lubricate anywhere where string contacts changer, as that will on nearly all PSGs make the problem worse.
Lane has covered the scissor check, which should be performed whenever there is a pitch-stability problem.
Sometimes overtightened lower-return springs may cause return-to-pitch instability, but then both fully raised or lowered strings will tend to have pitch-stability issues too and be much worse to keep in tune than what you describe.
Lastly: if you can hear the problem, then you may have a problem worth looking into. If OTOH you can only measure it, doing much beyond regular maintenance will rarely ever do much good unless you know all the mechanics involved in your PSG inside-out. |
|
|
|
Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
|
Posted 6 Aug 2018 6:11 am
|
|
Good catch, Georg. I rarely have the roller nut problem, so I keep forgetting to mention it.
The vast majority of change-stability issues will be solved by one of the two.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
|
|
|
Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
|
Posted 6 Aug 2018 9:14 am
|
|
My Franklin has "drop return compensators" on all strings that both raise and lower, except the 9th string on C6th. It was the reason I bought the Franklin as it was the only one offering them at the time. Some other steel guitar companies offered the compensators a couple years later.
I had a 71 D-10 PP Emmons and the hysteresis (coming back sharp) especially on the C6th 10th string always bugged me. The Franklin steel with compensators took care of the problem. |
|
|
|
Jeff Rady
From:
Colorado, USA
|
Posted 8 Aug 2018 12:36 pm
|
|
Thanks Guys! This is really good intel! I appreciate it! I'll try the maintenance you guys suggested.
I guess I can't really tell that the exact string is returning sharp by just listening to that string, but I can tell that the tuning becomes slightly unsettled.
Jack, do you find that maintaining or trouble shooting the compensator adds more complications or is it pretty trouble free?
Thanks a bunch!
J.R
_________________
Williams Guitar Purveyor, Owner of jeffsguitarandsteel.com |
|
|
|
Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
|
Posted 9 Aug 2018 2:30 am
|
|
| The Franklin drop return compensators are a "set and forget" operation. Rarely does one need a touch up. |
|
|
|
Jeff Rady
From:
Colorado, USA
|
|
|
|
Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
|
Posted 21 Aug 2018 2:14 am
|
|
| Jeff, what does this have to do with "drop return compensators"? |
|
|
|
Rob Rohde-Szudy
From:
Wisconsin, USA
|
Posted 16 Aug 2020 10:50 pm
|
|
| Jack Stoner wrote: |
| Jeff, what does this have to do with "drop return compensators"? |
I'm thinking that must have been a too many windows open error. |
|
|
|
Glenn Demichele
From:
(20mi N of) Chicago Illinois, USA
|
Posted 17 Aug 2020 10:04 am
|
|
When you click your mouse to "drop" an open window to your taskbar, then you click on the taskbar to "return" to that window, your mouse has to be in exactly the right place, otherwise you will end up typing in the wrong window. I don't know of any computer that has compensation for that...
_________________
Franklin D10 8&5, Excel D10 8&5. Both amazing guitars! Homemade buffer/overdrive with adjustable 700Hz "Fender" scoop., Moyo pedal, GT-001 effects, 2x TDA7294 80W class AB amps, or 2x BAM200 for stereo. TT12 and BW1501 each in its own closed back wedge. Also NV400 etc. etc... |
|
|
|
Jeff Rady
From:
Colorado, USA
|
Posted 14 Sep 2020 10:40 am
|
|
Oops sorry guys, didn't mean to post that last lick
_________________
Williams Guitar Purveyor, Owner of jeffsguitarandsteel.com |
|
|
|
Jim Pitman
From:
Waterbury Ctr. VT 05677 USA
|
Posted 14 Sep 2020 4:28 pm
|
|
My infinity has no hysteresis. It has no compensators. I've owned five other brands at one time or another. All have had hysteresis.
I was able to reduce hysteresis on my other guitars but never did it go completely away. I would remove, disassemble, clean, and lubricate the roller nut/axle every time I changed the strings.
Friction (stiction) at the roller nut is the problem.
My theory - Frank Carter has solved that problem on the Infinity by simply reducing the area of contact at the friction point and simultaneously increasing the mechanical advantage that the string exerts, ie really small roller nut axel, 0.0625" dia. and 0.375" dia. roller nuts (bigger than usual). |
|
|
|
Cameron Parsons
From:
Angleton, Texas
|
Posted 14 Sep 2020 4:47 pm
|
|
Jeff,
I have two Williams D10's with 9x9 and pitch return comps on every string that both raises and lowers. They work perfectly and rarely need adjusting. I have used them on every guitar I've owned in nearly 30 years of picking. Of course, one can hear tuning disparities in cents or hertz, or we wouldn't temper tune or be having this discussion. Comps solve the problem and make playing more enjoyable! You'll be glad you got them. I highlighted the comp cross bar assembly in the photo. And no, the extra hardware does not decrease sustain or tone.
Last edited by Cameron Parsons on 19 Sep 2020 10:47 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
|
|
Jeff Rady
From:
Colorado, USA
|
Posted 14 Sep 2020 8:29 pm
|
|
Thanks Cameron, that's amazing you put them on everything. Are they tightened up for every change or do you have them just in case? I find my Franklin Pedal is the hardest to return to pitch, what about you?
_________________
Williams Guitar Purveyor, Owner of jeffsguitarandsteel.com |
|
|
|
Cameron Parsons
From:
Angleton, Texas
|
Posted 15 Sep 2020 1:52 am
|
|
| It seems like the lower wound strings, especially on C6, do not need compensation. But I have them if I need them - kinda like flood insurance. 😠|
|
|
|
Landon Johnson
From:
Washington, USA
|
Posted 22 Mar 2023 10:20 am I have these now, too!
|
|
Hi Cameron I have these on my Williams, as you know. I'm trying to find any info I can on how they should be set up. I'm not needing to change anything but just want to have that knowledge. I've searched but cannot find.... can you point me to something? It's not in the Williams manual either....
Thanks!
_________________
1989 Mullen PRP SD-10, 2021 Williams S-10, Quilter TT-12. |
|
|
|
John Hyland
From:
South Australia
|
Posted 22 Mar 2023 12:48 pm
|
|
| How do the compensators work? |
|
|
|
