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Topic: Sho Bud mechanical advice, please |
Gary Patterson
From:
Gallatin, TN
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Posted 9 Jul 2018 1:39 pm |
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I've just embarked on a thorough clean-up of a Sho Bud crossover, and I disassembled the changer to scrape decades of gunk off the internal parts. After reassembling, I noticed a difference in length among the several fingers, as indicated by the arrows. Is this a random manufacturing variation, or is there a correct position for each finger?
While we're at it, there are 11 holes to mount 10 spring retaining screws. Do I have them right, or should I move them over one notch?
Thanks, experts.[img][/img] |
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Gary Patterson
From:
Gallatin, TN
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Posted 9 Jul 2018 1:43 pm
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Pic didn't take the first time.
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jim flynn
From:
Salado,Texas
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Posted 11 Jul 2018 1:17 pm ShoBud finger diff.
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lots of SB's were built with parts varying with design changes. There is a little difference in leverage but I doubt that it will be of any consequence to you.
the housing was probably designed for 10-11 strings.
The return springs should be in line with the fingers.
Contact Jeff at ShoPro for expert advice.
Good Luck,
Jim |
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Ron Pruter
From:
Arizona, USA
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Posted 12 Jul 2018 7:38 pm
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Gary, It appears to me that the rivets are all about, in the same place. The waste material over the top has no effect on anything. RP.
_________________
Emmons SKH Le Grande, '73 Fender P/J bass, Tick tack bass, Regal high strung, USA Nashville 112. |
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Jim Sliff
From:
Lawndale California, USA
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Posted 12 Jul 2018 8:05 pm
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After all that work IMO you'd be well advised to avoid use of ANY oils for lubrication - use only DRY teflon lube. Oils are all dirt magnets, picking up dirt, dust, hair and also breaking down over time.
Oils are OK only if you periodically flush them out with naphtha the cleanest, safest solvent you can use). Again, IMO it's far better to stick with dry Teflon (PTFE) only. You do need to check labels as there are oil-type PTFE lubes as well.
_________________
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional |
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Gary Patterson
From:
Gallatin, TN
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Posted 13 Jul 2018 5:55 am
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Thanks, Ron. I noticed the rivets were all about the same height, but I couldn't help wondering how the parts could vary accidentally. They are stamped using a die, I presume. Anyway, the other changer shows a similarly random array, so I'm not worried.
Jim, I had the same thoughts about lube. This thing was a horrible mess, and needed to be scrubbed with naphtha and a wire brush on every surface. However, I seem to recall seeing much controversy here on the forum concerning if and with what to lubricate.
Thanks for any advice anyone cares to offer. |
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Ricky Davis
From:
Bertram, Texas USA
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Posted 13 Jul 2018 7:40 am
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Gary; the "Crossover" was basically a introduction to a new tuning effect for a new endorsement by Baldwin to Sho~bud. So they designed two tunings played with same pedals and knee levers; by linking them to a crossover mechanism. There was NO uniform parts made for every Crossover. All these mechanisms were actually new ideas for a new changer and barrel tuning mechanism that Sho~bud was going to build on their new "Professional" pedal steel.....>All this was happening very late '60's. So you would see small differences in mechanics throughout the couple years the Crossover was made; as it was not until the "Professional" was being fully manufactured(1970), that things got back to a normal consistent Sho~bud pedal steel again.
Ricky
_________________
Ricky Davis
Email Ricky: sshawaiian2362@gmail.com |
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Gary Patterson
From:
Gallatin, TN
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Posted 13 Jul 2018 7:57 am
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Thanks for your comments, guys. I was aware of the concept of a Crossover, but not the specific history. Since we have some experts on hand, let me ask a question having nothing to do with mechanics:
This unit has birdseye decks with rosewood necks and apron, and diamond inlay banding. The Sho Bud logo is intact under the lacquer, but there is no sign of a Baldwin label as I've seen on all other examples. It's got six pedals and one knee lever.
However, if it truly is a Crossover, I didn't get any parts for that function. Is there such a thing as a non-Baldwin Crossover? Is it possible they built a non-Crossover on the same cast AL frame as a crossover? This guitar has a serial number 8012. |
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Jim Kennedy
From:
Brentwood California, USA
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Posted 13 Jul 2018 8:45 am
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I replaced the fingers on my pro 1 with new fingers from John Coop. When I put it back together the comb on the bottom of the block wood not mesh properly with the fingers. John informed me that this was a common problem when replacing the fingers. According to John there was a lot of variance in ShoBud parts. He kept very close tolerance on his replacement parts. He graciously took a few weeks thousandths off of the block, at no charge, so everything would fit.
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ShoBud Pro 1, 75 Tele, 85 Yamaha SA 2000, Fender Cybertwin, |
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Marco Schouten
From:
Amsterdam, The Netherlands
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Posted 13 Jul 2018 11:18 am
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| Gary Patterson wrote: |
Thanks for your comments, guys. I was aware of the concept of a Crossover, but not the specific history. Since we have some experts on hand, let me ask a question having nothing to do with mechanics:
This unit has birdseye decks with rosewood necks and apron, and diamond inlay banding. The Sho Bud logo is intact under the lacquer, but there is no sign of a Baldwin label as I've seen on all other examples. It's got six pedals and one knee lever.
However, if it truly is a Crossover, I didn't get any parts for that function. Is there such a thing as a non-Baldwin Crossover? Is it possible they built a non-Crossover on the same cast AL frame as a crossover? This guitar has a serial number 8012. |
Yes, there are a few Baldwin guitars that are not crossovers. Or it could be a guitar where someone changed the mechanics, the crossover mechanism could get out of tune quickly.
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JCH SD-10 with BL XR-16 pickup, Sho-Bud Volume Pedal, Evidence Audio Lyric HG cables, Quilter Steelaire combo |
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Marco Schouten
From:
Amsterdam, The Netherlands
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Posted 13 Jul 2018 11:25 am
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| Jim Kennedy wrote: |
| I replaced the fingers on my pro 1 with new fingers from John Coop. When I put it back together the comb on the bottom of the block wood not mesh properly with the fingers. John informed me that this was a common problem when replacing the fingers. According to John there was a lot of variance in ShoBud parts. He kept very close tolerance on his replacement parts. He graciously took a few weeks thousandths off of the block, at no charge, so everything would fit. |
My crossover had a few worn Schaller tuners and worn rollers. I bought another crossover keyhead and thougt that I could swap the rollers and tuners. While the rollers looked the same size, they were actually a tiny bit wider and didn't fit the slots in the old keyhead. So I decided to replace the entire keyhead....guess what, one of the screw holes is at a different place, so I had to drill another hole through the topdeck. No consistency at all.
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JCH SD-10 with BL XR-16 pickup, Sho-Bud Volume Pedal, Evidence Audio Lyric HG cables, Quilter Steelaire combo |
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Damir Besic
From:
Nashville,TN.
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Posted 13 Jul 2018 11:40 am
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this is a crossover, and it has all the parts needed, it belonged to Ralph Mooney at some point, at least I believe it did since original case had Ralph’s name, address and phone number on it... all the rack cages, that were on guitar came with it... I’ll see if I can find a picture of the case with Ralph’s info...
rods which were connecting cages with the crossover lever, were soft aluminum, and i remember one broke, and another one may still be with the rest of the parts, but I was gonna use new steel rod anyway... little lever that was used to change necks was ugly, and I trowed that away and was gonna make a nice new one...i don't know what happened to the pickup, it was with the rest of the parts, I don't have use for it, or any need to keep it, but I may have some old Sho~Bud pick up somewhere, and if i can find it I'll mail it to you, it should fit I guess, I'm not sure if it works or not, it may have to be rewound ...
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www.steelguitarsonline.com |
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Damir Besic
From:
Nashville,TN.
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Posted 13 Jul 2018 2:57 pm
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this pictures of the guitar show what is going on underneath ...
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www.steelguitarsonline.com |
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Gary Patterson
From:
Gallatin, TN
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Posted 18 Jul 2018 5:51 am
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Yes, it's clear to me now that this is indeed a crossover, and I see how the shift functions, using some little brass studs arranged on a long rod. I have that rod and studs assembly installed on the E9, but will need to make a similar setup for the C6 neck, as well as the cross-shaft for the mechanism.
Thanks, Damir, for the photos and the additional parts you sent. |
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Gary Patterson
From:
Gallatin, TN
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Posted 18 Jul 2018 5:57 am
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People here seem to like discerning detailed features of these beasts, as do I, so I'll pose this observation:
All the photos I've seen of Crossover and other "barrel tuner" designs seem to show brass barrels and allen-head tuning rods.
This guitar is equipped with steel barrels, and slot-head tuning heads. What does that say about the history of this unit? |
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Gary Patterson
From:
Gallatin, TN
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Posted 22 Jul 2018 6:11 am
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I've begun to assemble this thing and find that only one of my pull-rods is long enough to reach the #1 Pedal. The apparent solution is to buy some new 1/8" aluminum rod and put these ends on the new, longer rod.
From the photo, you might think that the slotted head is threaded onto the aluminum rod. I'm not so sure. I can't get it to budge by turning, and I'm afraid to twist too hard, lest I break the rod off in the head, leaving both useless.
Does anyone have certain knowledge of how this steel head is attached to the rod? Swedged, or maybe heated and shrunk?
Better yet, anybody know where to get some more of these heads?
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 28 Jul 2018 8:05 am
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It almost looks crimped/swaged.
I'd just buy a new rod from Michael Yahl.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 28 Jul 2018 6:51 pm
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BUMP
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"74 Bud S-10 3&6
'73 Bud S-10 3&5(under construction)
'63 Fingertip S-10, at James awaiting 6 knees
'57 Strat, LP Blue
'91 Tele with 60's Maple neck
Dozen more guitars!
Dozens of amps, but SF Quad reverb, Rick Johnson cabs. JBL 15, '64 Vibroverb for at home.
'52 and '56 Pro Amps |
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Gary Patterson
From:
Gallatin, TN
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Posted 30 Jul 2018 5:22 pm
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| Turns out they are threaded. I stuck one in the gas grill and gave it a good twist. |
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