Keyless

Steve Lafferty · From: Wood River, Illinois, USA

I play 6 string telecaster and strat lead guitar for about 20 years and I have been thinking of getting a 10 string single neck pedal steel to learn on and I am wondering what the advantages or disadvantages are of a keyless vs keyed?
Thank you so much for your help in advance,
Steve Lafferty

Lee Baucum · From: McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier

Use this search function on the Forum.

https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/google.php

Type in:

keyed vs keyless

You will get a list of useful previous discussions.
_________________
Lee, from South Texas - Down On The Rio Grande

There are only two options as I see it.
Either I'm right, or there is a sinister conspiracy to conceal the fact that I'm right.

Williams Keyless S-10, BMI S-10, Evans FET-500LV, Fender Steel King, 2 Roland Cube 80XL's,
Sarno FreeLoader, Goodrich Passive Volume Pedals, Vintage ACE Pack-A-Seat

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

Due to keyhead resonance, a keyed guitar tends to have more tonal difference from one string to the next. I don't think of this as an advantage or disadvantage, but some people have a distinct preference.

It's been claimed that keyless guitars have less hysteresis*. My limited experience (Sierra and Williams guitars of both kinds) doesn't bear that out. I saw no significant difference on a sensitive meter. I now believe that hysteresis happens in the bridge and roller nut, not in the keyhead of a keyed guitar. In any case, most modern guitars have hysteresis down into the "almost inaudible" range. I can see it on the meter, but I'll be darned if I can hear actually hear it.

I can change strings faster on a keyless guitar, but some people are more adept at winding around keys. People often argue pro and con on this issue. Some people don't like having to use a tool to tune, others think it's no big deal.

*hysteresis - what steel players call the physical effect of a raised string returning flat or a lowered string returning sharp.
_________________
-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video

Hal Braun · From: Eustis, Florida, USA

I have one each.. a Jackson 12 and an Excel 12.. the keyless Is much lighter and compact.. much easier to carry ( if that is a concern.. Iâ€™m 66 so it is getting to be more of a concern). Very Happy

If you travel with the guitar, keyless really helps conserve weight.

Depending on the keyless, changing strings can get a little â€œfiddlyâ€ but you will quickly learn how it works.. Iâ€™m not sure I would let keyed or keyless determine whether I bought a steel or not if the price was right, but All else equal I would now lean to keyless for the reason mentioned above.

Greg Cutshaw · From: Corry, PA, USA

Keyless guitars can have much more compact and lighter bodies. Saves a lot of room in the studio and on the stage especially if you are playing multiple instruments on a crowded stage.

Jerry Overstreet · From: Louisville Ky

I've owned and played about 5 keyless pedal steels. 2 D10's, and 3 universal guitars. 2 14 stringers and 1 12 string. I've owned and played an equal number of conventional keyhead guitars in different configurations.

Like Hal, I just don't find any serious hindrances or advantages either way.

I will say that many keyless guitars are more compact. If you're a very tall and/or large person, you may find them to be a bit cramped space wise. OTOH, smaller players find that to be a plus.

One of the keyless guitars I owned was a Williams. Only one or two of the current builders that I know of that lets you a choose a conventional keyhead or a keyless one. Given the choice of either on the same build, I'd choose keyless. FWIW.

Jeffrey McFadden · From: Missouri, USA

It has seemed to me, without having any actual experience with one, that very fine tuning changes would be easier with a keyless. I do have pretty severe arthritis and it's difficult for me to turn keys bare handed, but... It's just wishful thinking, maybe. Like I said, I've not tried one. I notice nobody referred to such a thing in previous comments.
_________________
Well up into mediocrity
I don't play what I'm supposed to.
Home made guitars

Rich Upright · From: Florida, USA

I've said this before...I have never heard a keyless guitar that I thought sounded good; it just ain't there. 'Course that's just me.
_________________
A couple D-10s,some vintage guitars & amps, & lotsa junk in the gig bag.

Billy Carr · From: Seminary, Mississippi, USA (deceased)

To each there own but I prefer keyed guitars which is my comfort zone.

Ian Rae · From: Redditch, England

That comfort may be as much down to ergonomics as sound. If you're used to your A pedal being to the left of the nut, that space is gone and it's now roughly where the C pedal was.

To operate all the pedals on my keyless uni comfortably I sit opposite the 17th fret, which will seem extreme to many folks. But I'm used to it now and it works. I can imagine that sitting down at a keyless for the first time could be quite disorientating.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs

Erv Niehaus · From: Litchfield, MN, USA

Years ago there was a keyless tuner on the market and I put it on my Sho~Bud. The guitar lost some of the richness that it had with the keyed head.
Your mileage may vary.
Erv

Ian Rae · From: Redditch, England

There is no doubt at least in my mind that what an engineer might regard as an imperfection (such as the spare string at a keyhead) lends character to an instrument. My best example is the bassoon which if properly constructed would cease to exist.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs

Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

fwiw, I have both Keyed and Keyless Steels, and gig with both.
Once the song kicks off and the band starts playing it really makes no difference to me.

Stu Schulman · From: Ulster Park New Yawk (deceased)

As long as I've been playing I've never played a keyless guitar or a Fender pedal steel guitar.
_________________
Steeltronics Z-pickup,Desert Rose S-10 4+5,Desert Rose Keyless S-10 3+5... Mullen G2 S-10 3+5,Telonics 206 pickups,Telonics volume pedal.,Blanton SD -10,Emmons GS_10...Zirctone bar,Bill Groner Bar...any amp that isn't broken.Steel Seat.Com seats...Licking paint chips off of Chinese Toys since 1952.

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

It's kind of a no-brainier if compactness is your big interest - keyless design rules in that department. And if you're just starting out, any small sonic differences likely won't matter very much.

For some reason, though, most pros avoid them. The only reasons I can come up with are the unconventional look and small size, or how they sound. For the other 99% of us, I think you can sound good on either. Just pick a guitar and start learning, that's what's important.

John Billings · From: Ohio, USA

Papa John was very interested in my Kline Uni.
_________________
Dr. Z Surgical Steel amp, amazing!
"74 Bud S-10 3&6
'73 Bud S-10 3&5(under construction)
'63 Fingertip S-10, at James awaiting 6 knees
'57 Strat, LP Blue
'91 Tele with 60's Maple neck
Dozen more guitars!
Dozens of amps, but SF Quad reverb, Rick Johnson cabs. JBL 15, '64 Vibroverb for at home.
'52 and '56 Pro Amps

Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

My Kline Uni is Keyless and is both my physically smallest guitar, and also my heaviest guitar.
I keep it at my friends place in Montana, and have a gig there Labor Day Weekend.
Another friend has a Willians Keyless S12U which is also very compact and under 50lbs in the case, for flying.
If I were going to buy an S10 I would look very seriously at a Williams Keyless. In the case, it looks like a trumpet or sax sized instrument.

Lee Baucum · From: McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier

Lee Baucum · From: McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier

Bill Ford · From: Graniteville SC Aiken

Love my keyless.
_________________
Bill Ford S12 CLR, S12 Lamar keyless, Misc amps&toys Sharp Covers
Steeling for Jesus now!!!

John Billings · From: Ohio, USA

I have retired from gigging. Selling everything. But going to buy another Kline U-12 to play at home. Wonderful guitar, even though I'm a huge ShoBud fan!
_________________
Dr. Z Surgical Steel amp, amazing!
"74 Bud S-10 3&6
'73 Bud S-10 3&5(under construction)
'63 Fingertip S-10, at James awaiting 6 knees
'57 Strat, LP Blue
'91 Tele with 60's Maple neck
Dozen more guitars!
Dozens of amps, but SF Quad reverb, Rick Johnson cabs. JBL 15, '64 Vibroverb for at home.
'52 and '56 Pro Amps

Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

fwiw, I think my Kline S12U sounds pretty Sho-Bud-ee.

John Billings · From: Ohio, USA

I agree Pete!
_________________
Dr. Z Surgical Steel amp, amazing!
"74 Bud S-10 3&6
'73 Bud S-10 3&5(under construction)
'63 Fingertip S-10, at James awaiting 6 knees
'57 Strat, LP Blue
'91 Tele with 60's Maple neck
Dozen more guitars!
Dozens of amps, but SF Quad reverb, Rick Johnson cabs. JBL 15, '64 Vibroverb for at home.
'52 and '56 Pro Amps

Ian Rae · From: Redditch, England

John Billings · From: Ohio, USA

I was going in to play my D-10 Shobud at Ponderosa Park. I saw this little case and thought "Oh no!" Im going to have to suffer through Yakkety Sax! But when the guy opened the case, it was a Kline! Bought one the next day,
_________________
Dr. Z Surgical Steel amp, amazing!
"74 Bud S-10 3&6
'73 Bud S-10 3&5(under construction)
'63 Fingertip S-10, at James awaiting 6 knees
'57 Strat, LP Blue
'91 Tele with 60's Maple neck
Dozen more guitars!
Dozens of amps, but SF Quad reverb, Rick Johnson cabs. JBL 15, '64 Vibroverb for at home.
'52 and '56 Pro Amps

Forum Index > Pedal Steel	Goto page 1, 2 Next	Next oldest topic :: Next newest topic